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To: Monmouth78

The question that should be asked is why is the US and EU so desperate to get their claws into Ukraine? It is an economic basket case and will have a negative impact on Europe economically. Has everyone forgotten Greece? The absorption of Eastern Europe is also hurting Europe economically.

Why is Obama and America’s left wing so anxious to go to was with Russia?


8 posted on 03/15/2014 2:08:37 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (They are called "Liberals" because the word "parasite" was already taken.)
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To: Cowboy Bob

Aside from McCain, I haven’t seen anyone yelp about war. Obama doesn’t care enough about this and wouldn’t let it bother his golf game but it’s just one of many international issues that he has bungled and he need to repair his image long enough to get through the elections.
He has no interest in Crimea, everything they do right now is for domestic consumption.


9 posted on 03/15/2014 3:13:41 AM PDT by newnhdad (Our new motto: USA, it was fun while it lasted.)
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To: Cowboy Bob
"why is the US and EU so desperate to get their claws into Ukraine?"

A good question defined by a series of events.

1. 1990- the 2 plus 4 treaty negotiations on German re-unification and whether or not NATO would expand to the east and Ukraine. Gorbachev said that the US made that commitment to not expand NATO, Robert Zoellick, lead negotiator for the US, said no commitment was made.

2. 1992- Wolfowitz Doctrine. A policy paper by Wolfowitz, defense undersecretary for policy, that would define US policy towards and prevention of the re-establishment of a regional power built upon the Soviet platform. Also known as the NeoCon Doctrine or Bush Doctrine.

3. 1994- Orange Revolution largely financed by US AID money to Civil Society NGOs in Ukraine to establish a western friendly govt.

4. 1998- The beginning of the price rise in first the price of oil then natural gas that led to an eventual quadrupling. Continued decline in output from the North Sea field. Eventually led to a reversal of fortune to the Russian Petro State

2001- Establishment of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization(SCO) comprised of China, Russia, and the petro rich central Asian nations.

2002- Establishment of the Collective Security Treaty Organization(CSTO) which was built upon the military government alliance established in 1992. Georgia and Ukraine decline membership. In 2011 Russia was given veto power over the establishment of a foreign military base in any of the CSTO nations

2002- US begins negotiations on the establishment of the European Interceptor Site in Poland

2008- Russia invades Georgia

2010- Russian friendly govt elected in Ukraine and the 50 year lease on the Russian Naval base in Crimea is renewed.

2013- the second Orange revolution begins.

13 posted on 03/15/2014 6:22:15 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Cowboy Bob

It’s mindless. Our “deep state” is just being too aggressive. The have begun believing their own BS that anything they do is justified including fomenting a coup against a demographically elected government.

Had the early election gone ahead with no coup, probably everything our leaders wanted from Ukraine would have happened peacefully. They overreached.

From the perspective of Russia, China and many other countries, when the US overthrows a democratic government that is a mild inconvenience after pontificating so loudly about how democracy must be followed looks very bad and justifies all kinds of nondemocratic behavior on their part.

I feel sorry for the people of Ukraine that they are trapped by these larger forces they cannot control.

Notice that the play book in Ukraine is basically a 1960’s leftist protest strategy. The idea is you can determine who is runs the government by whoever mobilizes more and more enthusiastic protests rather than who gets the most votes.


16 posted on 03/15/2014 2:57:45 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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