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Army Considers Trading Armor for Speed
Military.com ^ | Feb 12, 2014 | Matthew Cox

Posted on 02/16/2014 11:52:44 AM PST by null and void

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To: jz638

SPOT FREAKING ON!!!

The humvee was supposed to fulfill this, then it was uparmoured to protect against IED’s.

Sounds like they want a new “original” humvee.


101 posted on 02/16/2014 7:36:31 PM PST by packrat35 (Pelosi is only on loan to the world from Satan. Hopefully he will soon want his baby killer back)
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To: FreedomCalls
Bismarck takes Class A team title

While I don't discount the code-breaking of the Enigma, the Atlantic is s big ocean. Escort carriers provided air cover over the mid-Atlantic gap.. With advances in radar, U-boats took their life in hand when the surfaced or used their periscope. The secrets concerning Allied work on Enigma contributed greatly to the eventual success of the Allies.

Germany and Japanese hubris concerning their 'unbreakable' codes led to the the defeat of the Japs at Midway and the death of Yamamoto in the Pacific. Even with the code-breaking success, the war in many ways was determined as always by the grit and determination of the Allied fighting man. First by the Australian/American effort in New Guinea the Allied effort in North Africa, Sicily and Italy, followed by the relentless Allied effort in France and the combined Allied work against the Jap Empire.

102 posted on 02/16/2014 7:56:51 PM PST by xone
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To: 1rudeboy
HMS Hood was 44,600 tons, had a crew of 1,419 and was faster than the Bismarck with a maximum speed of 32 knots. The Hood had been launched in 1918 and was armed with 8 x 15 inch guns, 12 x 5.5 inch guns, 8 x 4 inch AA guns, 24 x 2 pound guns and 4 x 21 inch torpedoes.

However, the Hood suffered from one major flaw – she did not have the same amount of armour as the Bismarck. The fact that the Hood was faster than the Bismarck by 3 knots was as a result of her lack of sufficient armour for a naval battle fought in World War Two. What had been considered sufficient armour in 1918 when Hood was built, was to prove a fatal flaw in 1941.

103 posted on 02/16/2014 7:59:42 PM PST by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb

So, how’s the Bismarck doing, nowadays?


104 posted on 02/16/2014 8:01:35 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Spartan302

Hammer’s Slammers!


105 posted on 02/16/2014 8:11:03 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: 1rudeboy
"The A-10's airframe was designed for survivability, with measures such as 1,200 pounds (540 kg) of armor for protection of the cockpit and aircraft systems that enables the aircraft to continue flying after taking significant damage ......

The A-10 was used in combat for the first time during the Gulf War in 1991, destroying more than 900 Iraqi tanks, 2,000 other military vehicles and 1,200 artillery pieces, making it by far the most effective aircraft of the war.

106 posted on 02/16/2014 8:12:54 PM PST by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: Spartan302
GAU-8 30mm

107 posted on 02/16/2014 8:15:36 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: jpsb

The A-10 was designed by people who rejected the Pentagon’s way of gold-plating everything. Same people who designed the F-16 . . . you know, a small light maneuverable aircraft.


108 posted on 02/16/2014 8:15:48 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: arthurus

The mighty Mo. Too bad we can no longer afford such ships.

109 posted on 02/16/2014 8:34:44 PM PST by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: 1rudeboy
"The four British ships fired more than 2,800 shells at Bismarck, and scored more than 400 hits, but were unable to sink Bismarck by gunfire. At around 10:20, running low on fuel, Tovey ordered the cruiser Dorsetshire to sink Bismarck with torpedoes.
110 posted on 02/16/2014 8:42:57 PM PST by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: 1rudeboy
As a standoff weapon

A friend of mine attached to ANGLICO, had the Missouri in a direct support role during the invasion of Kuwait. Didn't last long because the Corps passed the Arabs on the Arab left, but he did get pre-H hour pre-planned fires as well as a couple on-calls later.

111 posted on 02/16/2014 8:45:17 PM PST by xone
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To: 1rudeboy

A-10 “small light”? You are still as uninformed as ever. The A-10 is one of the most heavily armored aircraft ever built.


112 posted on 02/16/2014 8:46:22 PM PST by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: arthurus
They are finally gone, yes, but it was a long time after their WW2 “demise.”

See their efforts in Korea and on the gunline in the Nam.

113 posted on 02/16/2014 8:48:33 PM PST by xone
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To: xone
Bismarck takes Class A team title

Obviously another topic.

114 posted on 02/16/2014 8:52:55 PM PST by xone
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To: KC_Lion

He had a problem with keeping doors closed, The Pi Factor and thin skins.


115 posted on 02/17/2014 12:46:42 AM PST by Domangart (LBGT = NAMBLA)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Correct. There is no substitute or equivalent now a regards naval gunfire. Those 16” shells could go 24/7 nearly regardless of weather. The 8” shells from the cruisers were not that bad either.


116 posted on 02/17/2014 5:27:39 AM PST by MSF BU (n)
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To: jpsb

We can afford it. I remember listening to a representative from the Navy talking about the cost of a refurbishment; it was less than the cost of a destroyer, faster than any other major warship and could be used as an oiler because of the fuel stores aboard. As regards survivability, as I recall the Navy rep said it was the heaviest armored ship in the fleet. I’ll let my peers in the Navy fill us in to see if Dick Danzig ever got around to mandating that the gals get their billets in the fleet.


117 posted on 02/17/2014 5:34:13 AM PST by MSF BU (n)
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To: jpsb
You are still as uninformed as ever.

Let me repeat:

The A-10 was designed by people who rejected the Pentagon’s way of gold-plating everything. Same people who designed the F-16 . . . you know, a small light maneuverable aircraft.

The first sentence is about the A-10, and the second sentence is about the F-16. Could I have been more clear? Sure, but I expect a minimum level of intelligence from readers. In your case, the bar was set too high.

118 posted on 02/17/2014 6:07:21 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: The Working Man
Let's go back to the British SAS photo and take a closer look at just what is there and what's not.

vehicles: 4 stripped down 'jeeps'
no wind screens, just bare sheet metal

(no. 4 with MGs facing right barely visible)

weapons: 7 LMGs, 1 HMg, sidearms assumed and at least 1 Fairbairn-Sykes knife.

Fuel: the poor bastards loaded extra jerry cans on every surface they could find. That's really trading armor for speed and range.

Looks like a swift hit and run/recon team to me. Single mission, no add-ons.

A nd the Somali, Chad, Taliban, et al technicals with Toyota pickups follow that model to a tee. Light force, quick attack, no ROEs against larger heavier armed force.

Don't know much about the skeleton dune buggy types the SPEC OPs were using in the early days of Afghanistan but from what little I gathered they followed the SAS Desert Rat model.

Funny how field expedient solutions work until some underemployed surplus to needs brass decides they see career opportunities and swallow them whole. Whole lot of fat tails looking for a dog to which to attach themselves.

119 posted on 02/17/2014 6:23:18 AM PST by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Covenantor

I was a real fan of the SAS as a kid and read several very good books about them.

To take your points in order. By the way I do agree with you.

“Let’s go back to the British SAS photo and take a closer look at just what is there and what’s not.

vehicles: 4 stripped down ‘jeeps’
no wind screens, just bare sheet metal”

The windscreens were removed because after the first raid it was found that their position was exposed by the sun reflecting off of the glass and the Germans spotted them that way.

“(no. 4 with MGs facing right barely visible)”

If I remember correctly those are Lewis guns that were equipped with light armor piercing and incendiary rounds. (Tracers), The Lewis guns were originally used in WW1 Aircraft and were found to be not required by the regular forces and were available, (scrounged), to the SAS blokes.

weapons: 7 LMGs, 1 HMg, sidearms assumed and at least 1 Fairbairn-Sykes knife.”

“Fuel: the poor bastards loaded extra jerry cans on every surface they could find. That’s really trading armor for speed and range.”

Actually it’s about fifty/fifty with fuel and water. There was very little potable water available in North Africa and the Bedouins would not share with anyone, (understandably so).

“Looks like a swift hit and run/recon team to me. Single mission, no add-ons.”

Yes and no on the single mission stuff, they would head deep into enemy territory by going south of the main east/west highway that most of the fighting took place along and set up temporary ‘base’ camps to do their hit and run raids from.

The SAS in north Africa is also credited for destroying more enemy aircraft than the RAF did in North Africa. Of course they did it while on the ground and in the Germans air bases. Unfortunately that chapped a few RAF Generals the wrong way and they refused to give them any ‘air’ medals for destroying enemy aircraft because it wasn’t done while they were in the air.

Lots and lots of good stories about them and the Special-boat teams from WW II.


120 posted on 02/17/2014 10:43:02 AM PST by The Working Man
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