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To: Repeat Offender

Good for you. Bigger holes are a good thing, but that can be obtained by bigger, heavier solid bullets, or by frangible bullets at higher velocity. The M-855 bullet turns sideways a bit slower than the M193 bullet, and on a thin target (as in Somalia, they called the locals ‘skinnys’) that best effect may be beyond where their meat is. The less dense nature of lungs also reduces the turning force on the bullet.

Double tap was invented with the idea that each bullet has about a .9 effectiveness. hit with 2 and you get .99.

If your effectiveness for one bullet is about .5, then two gives you .75, and three gives you 0.875- to get a standard effectiveness of 0.99 with a .5 prob bullet you need in excess of 6 bullets.

Soviet tactics were to use 7 to 11 round bursts with the AK, because they expected that most rounds would miss at combat distances. They used more bullets to fill in the empty space, recognizing that near misses tend to suppress rational enemies. If you had an irrational enemy (hadji) who really thought that Allah would protect him, or would permit him to die a forgiven jihadi at Allah’s good time, then suppression doesn’t really work. On the other hand, similar beliefs tend to work against marksmanship skills if Allah is thought to guide the bullet.

An enemy who fires 30 rounds in your direction, hitting with 2 with one killed and one wounded will normally be thought to be very effective. By contrast, a US soldier who fires 8 bullets, hitting with 7 and killing 2 is thought to be ineffective. That is just the nature of human psychology.


274 posted on 12/30/2013 3:53:27 PM PST by donmeaker (A man can go anywhere on earth, and where man can go, he can drag a cannon.)
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To: donmeaker
I agree with everything you posted.

My point was we had guys, myself included, double tap hadji at close distance with 5.56 and the SOBs ran away.

One of our guys put four rounds, center mass, 5.56, in a scumbag at a distance of about 15 feet. The rounds went through and through and the guy ran off - I don't know how far he made it, but he still had his weapon and was still able to sprint.

Whereas, we had guys pick up AKs, dragunovs, PSL etc (noting the 7.6x54 is mostly steel core) and make bigger holes in the enemy, all the while utilizing effective marksmanship principles.

Now, as someone (you?) mentioned previously a bigger round isn't always going to have the desired effect - particularly if your enemy is high. One of my buddy's favorite stories: is the dude one of our snipers shot in the chest with a SASR .50 .........hadji appeared to walk away unscathed. In fact, he had back stepped around the corner just out of sight, about three feet, and died.

All of that said, I am heavily biased against M16/M4 weapons and have pointed out such on previous threads. I also am not a fan of the caliber. Every time I post on the topic, my statements/sentiments will reflect such.

And when it comes to fighting someone, whose mindset you may not know (not every hadji fully buys into the allah will protect me garbage), I will take a weapon with loose tolerances that can handle nearly all conditions and fires (relatively) cheap and readily available ammunition that makes a bigger hole. I haven't had the opportunity to target practice beyond 200yds, but at 200yds I have two AKs that with iron sights can hold fairly tight groups on a 6"pie pan.

And, until recently, I could buy and trick out two AKs for the price of one half decent AR. And the ammo is only 2/3 the price and is interchangeable with my SKS'.

Anyhow, hope Christmas and New Years was good for you - I've enjoyed the debate.

287 posted on 01/01/2014 1:42:12 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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