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To: Jeff Winston
IT WAS NEVER PLACED BEFORE THE DELEGATES OF THE CONSITUTIONAL CONVENTION AT ALL.

You have absolutely no evidence for this claim.

Hamilton was at the convention. Hamilton presented his ideas. That is why he was there.

Since Hamilton's idea on presidential eligibility was not adopted, we can safely say it was rejected.

John Jay's idea was accepted.

170 posted on 08/21/2013 5:19:28 PM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: Plummz
IT WAS NEVER PLACED BEFORE THE DELEGATES OF THE CONSITUTIONAL CONVENTION AT ALL.

You have absolutely no evidence for this claim.

Of course I do, genius, or I wouldn't have made it.

Unlike you.

The members of the Constitutional Convention kept records. There were both official records and unofficial records kept by various Delegates, including James Madison.

Over 100 years ago, Professor Max Farrand compiled the records of the Convention into 4 volumes. There are more than 2,000 pages of records from the Constitutional Convention.

Hamilton did make a presentation of sorts to the other delegates, fairly early in the game.

But even this presentation was not put formally before the Convention for their approval. He simply read an outline of his working plan, for the purpose of throwing out some of his ideas.

And that plan did NOT contain any birth qualification whatsoever for President.

His "born a Citizen" wording appears ONLY in a paper he gave to James Madison AFTER THE CONVENTION WAS OVER.

And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the delegates "rejected" Hamilton's "born a Citizen" wording, or that they saw any difference in meaning at all between the words "born a Citizen" and the words "a natural born Citizen."

Nor is there any statement whatsoever from the 2,000-plus pages of Constitutional Convention documentation, any Founding Father, any historical writer, or any legal expert in history that anybody found any particular difference between the words "born a Citizen" and "a natural born Citizen."

Gee. Don't you think if there was a difference, somebody would've commented on it?

Don't you think that if the delegates had "rejected Hamilton's proposal," SOMEBODY would've commented on it?

Of course they would have.

MORE THAN TWO THOUSAND PAGES OF NOTES AND DOCUMENTS FROM THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, AND NOT ONE PERSON COMMENTS, "HEY, WE THOUGHT HAMILTON'S PROPOSAL WAS TOO 'LENIENT,' SO WE CHANGED THE WORDING."

Hamilton's "proposal" THAT WAS NEVER EVEN PRESENTED, AS FAR AS ANYBODY CAN TELL.

Farrand, who read every single damn note of the records, comments that Hamilton's document "was not submitted to the Convention and has no further value than attaches to the personal opinions of Hamilton."

No, the REALITY is that only two men proposed a birth qualification for President.

John Jay and Alexander Hamilton.

And the two were so close that they collaborated on the crucial Federalist Papers after the Convention.

One said "born a Citizen," the other said "natural born Citizen." Maybe "natural born Citizen" had a nicer ring to it. I don't know.

But the thing I do know is that not one of the Founders or Framers or any other early US legal experts EVER said that "natural born Citizen" was anything more than "born a Citizen."

They just didn't.

And you would know that if you actually read HISTORY, and LAW, and the CONSTITUTION, instead of just reading the stupid opinion of some pathetically uninformed birther who flatters himself that he knows what he's talking about, when in reality he doesn't have a clue.

191 posted on 08/21/2013 7:02:35 PM PDT by Jeff Winston (Yeah, I think I could go with Cruz in 2016.)
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To: Plummz
You wrote:
Hamilton was at the convention. Hamilton presented his ideas. That is why he was there.

Since Hamilton's idea on presidential eligibility was not adopted, we can safely say it was rejected.

John Jay's idea was accepted.

Although Hamilton’s plan was never an official proposal, the founders most certainly did debate the details of the language of the Constitution, no doubt often down to the appropriateness of individual words. And “natural born Citizen” versus Hamilton’s “born Citizen” most certainly was one of those cases. Plain “born Citizen” was specifically rejected in favor of the stronger inborn loyalty check provided by “natural born Citizen” as urged by John Jay1.

To be merely born a citizen was not considered enough of barrier against a possible presidential aspirant with a strong foreign allegiance. For a modern example of how this has been ignored and perverted, just consider the so-called anchor baby, who, though born here, may likely be raised in a foreign land by parents neither of whom have taken an oath of sole (or any) allegiance to our Constitution. It is absurd beyond belief and an insult to the decency and intelligence of those who love the USA of our founding to suggest that such a tenuous quasi-denizen of our society could have been what the founders had in mind when they penned the phrase, “natural born Citizen,” yet many anti-American “progressives” and their low-information, useful idiot brethren would have us believe just that.


1. Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government, and to declare expressly that the Command in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen. — John Jay

220 posted on 08/22/2013 6:17:57 AM PDT by elengr (Benghazi treason: rescue denied, our guys DIED, aka obama s/b tried then fried!)
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