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To: exDemMom
Dear exDemMom,

You're right to say that it is still a scientifically-open question whether intergroup IQ differences are genetically-based or not. However, there is research that suggests it is, including research that shows that there are still differences between middle class blacks from “enriched” environments and similarly-situated middle class whites.

Are these differences really fully attributable to cultural differences? Maybe. Maybe not. Personally, based on my own experiences, I'm ambivalent. I went to, and my sons go to/graduated from a private college prep high school where pretty much everyone goes to college. Including a few folks who go to the Ivies and similar schools each year. The school is majority black.

All the black kids go to college, too.

But there appear to be clear achievement differences between racial groups. The AP calc and physics classes are over 80% white. The basic Spanish classes are overwhelmingly minority.

To be sure, there are very high-achieving and scoring blacks in the school. But the school is majority black and the overwhelming number of National Merit Finalists, and National Merit Commended students are white.

Because it's a private school, two things are true of nearly every student: his household has a higher-than-median income (median family income for the school is about $125K per year); and he was born into an intact family (and most students live in intact family environments while at the school).

These are in no way disadvantaged students.

So, what accounts for the perceived differences?

Some days, I ponder the question, and I think, yep, there's at least some genetic component.

But then I look at my own sons (my older son finished valedictorian, and my younger son won't be far behind as he completes his senior year, this year), and I think, what separates my sons from a lot of these other kids is their work ethic. Most days, they just outwork their peers, plain and simple. And I guess that's because my wife and I purposefully set out to create that kind of "family culture" (we homeschooled through 8th grade, and thus were able to really fashion our own "culture").

On days when I think of those differences that seem more about culture, I think, no, it's not genetic, it's cultural.

But then I wonder from where culture comes. Do better adapted cultures emerge from populations with higher average intelligence?

On those days, I'm just really confused.

It would be nice if folks did the science to answer these sorts of questions. But as the author of the article points out, even wondering aloud about the topic can ruin one’s career.


sitetest

119 posted on 08/10/2013 8:08:51 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest
You're right to say that it is still a scientifically-open question whether intergroup IQ differences are genetically-based or not. However, there is research that suggests it is, including research that shows that there are still differences between middle class blacks from “enriched” environments and similarly-situated middle class whites.

So, what accounts for the perceived differences? Some days, I ponder the question, and I think, yep, there's at least some genetic component.

Intellect results from a combination of genetics and environment. Some studies have shown that it takes about 3 or 4 generations for the kids from an originally disadvantaged family to catch up to where they fully express (in the genetic sense) their full intelligence potential.

The problem with many blacks is a culture that ostracizes intelligence, coupled with nutritional factors that probably don't go away in a single generation. So, while a black person might be able to lift him or herself from the ghetto, he or she still carries that ghetto culture within. He or she does not magically learn how to raise the children in a way to maximize their potential.

There is no reason to think that, on the population level, the distribution of "intelligence genes" is particularly different between different racial groups. On the individual level, however, genes do have a large contribution to intelligence--although it still takes the right environment to maximize their effect.

I have the experience of being a gifted child from a poor family. I was not given any particular early intellectual stimulation or enrolled in any special programs in school. My IQ is somewhere in the Einsteinian range. This is all genetics; my environment was not one that maximized their effect (in other words, I could have been a lot smarter). But just because I was lucky enough to get the combination of genes that made me smart does not mean I passed those genes on. My sons are both average. That was hard to adjust to; I had expected that any child I had would be gifted, and that was not the case. Well--the genes must still be there--I have bright grandchildren.

On days when I think of those differences that seem more about culture, I think, no, it's not genetic, it's cultural.

But then I wonder from where culture comes. Do better adapted cultures emerge from populations with higher average intelligence?

It would be nice if folks did the science to answer these sorts of questions. But as the author of the article points out, even wondering aloud about the topic can ruin one’s career.

Culture is a huge factor. We know that Asians have the stereotype of having higher intelligence as a group. (Although we only see the "cream"--the Asians of more modest intelligence tend not to emigrate from their home countries.) I have read that their higher academic achievement, however, disappears after a generation or two. Asians raised by parents who were born and raised in the US are not, on average, any smarter than the white population.

There are plenty of studies on intellect and the factors that contribute to it. They are not based on race; they just look at the various factors.

149 posted on 08/12/2013 4:58:13 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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