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Posted on 07/05/2013 2:20:03 PM PDT by kristinn
USA Today reports from Cairo at least 10 killed, hundreds wounded in Egypt today on the Muslim Brotherhood's (Ikwhan) "Day of Rejection" of the Egyptian military's removal of President Morsi from office this week after a popular uprising.
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Meanwhile, the U.S. State Department admitted Secretary of State John Kerry was indeed on his yacht in Nantucket on Wednesday as the revolution in Egypt succeeded:
CBS News photo via Twitter
(Live Thread) Egypt: American Killed During Violent Clashes (Egypt about to blow up)
Live Thread: Egypt Revolution 2.0
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3055340/posts
McCain: Kerry’s Message Sabotaged Egypt Mission
Newsmax ^ | Thursday, 15 Aug 2013 05:55 PM | Greg Richter
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/john-mccain-barack-obama-john-kerry-egypt-95590.html
John McCain hits Obama, Kerry on Egypt
Wow. And to think Egypt once was the pinnacle of Civilization. 30 years ago my folks had a great vacation there. (Even crashed an Egyptian wedding! Dad got caught peeking through the window when several guys asked what he was doing. “OH - American!! Come in, come in!”)
Insightful read on Muslim Brotherhood....
Author interviewed did so from within the Brotherhood for several years....on how the Brotherhood works within....
Eric Trager Interview responses:
The Muslim Brotherhood is certainly not democratic. Its view of Egyptian politics in one in which it should control everything.
For example, while it is willing to pursue power through elections, once it comes to office its goal is to establish and Islamic state in which it and its institutions control the Egyptian bureaucracy and institute its version of Islam while sidelining and oppressing all opponents.
“Moderate” is an even less accurate word in describing the Brotherhood......... It’s designed to weed out moderates during the recruitment process.
The process of becoming a Muslim Brother is a five to eight year ordeal where potential Muslim Brothers are vetted through five tiers of membership that tests their commitment to the cause and their willingness to take orders.... Anyone who has second thoughts about the organization, the ideology, or their willingness to blindly do what they’re told, is out.
When the Brotherhood first emerged as the leading organization after the 2011 uprising, a lot of observers thought it would become more moderate when forced to actually govern, .....but what those analysts overlooked that is that..... ‘the Brotherhood PREVENTS MODERATES from becoming members and prevents members from becoming moderates’.
I’ve interviewed dozens of their leaders and rank-and-file members..... I’ve interviewed many of the top figures that you read about in the press,.... including Mohammad Morsi.
The recruitment process and chain of command have been updated in some important respects..... The recruitment process, for instance, has a few more membership levels now than it used to...... But the basic idea that this is a vanguard and a closed society that ensures its members are totally committed to the cause and are willing to die for it is still true.
Many people think of the Brotherhood as an Islamist organization that rejects Al Qaeda style violence, so therefore it’s “moderate.” And this, in fact, is how Muslim Brotherhood leaders describe themselves when I talk to them. I’ll ask them what they mean when they say they’re moderates, and they’ll say, “we aren’t Al Qaeda.” Frankly, that has never been my standard of moderation. [Laughs.]
I think Washington’s fascination with the Brotherhood is the product of a search for an Islamist organization that reflects the “culture” of the Middle East and isn’t violent. There is a lack of appreciation for the fact that just because an organization doesn’t lead with violence doesn’t mean it’s going to be moderate or democratic or capable of governing.
And too many analysts took the Brotherhood’s claim of moderation at face value..... The Brotherhood says it views shura, an Islamic concept that means consultation, as democracy..... Many analysts said the Brotherhood is not only adopting democracy, it’s finding an Islamic justification for it. ....My view is that far from finding an Islamic justification for democracy, they were simply redefining democracy in a way that wasn’t democratic but sounded good to the West.
The Brotherhood seems to believe that if it can draw the military into a fight directly, it can create fissures within the military—not necessarily because there are many Islamists in the military, although that’s possible, but because the Brotherhood believes Egyptian soldiers won’t fire on fellow Egyptians.
Remember that during the initial uprising, the soldiers didn’t fire on demonstrators in Tahrir Square. I think, although I can’t be certain, that many soldiers would have refused to follow that order. We can see this belief that the military would fracture if such orders were given reflected in the Brotherhood’s statements. For its part, the army insists it’s one army, that there aren’t any fissures. So I think that’s the Brotherhood’s angle right now.
One other thing:... the Brotherhood has a five-part motto. The last two components of that motto are ...“Jihad is our way”... and “Death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.”
during my conversations with officials in the Egyptian military leading up to Morsi’s removal, they didn’t seem at all eager to re-enter politics. The generals admitted they aren’t good at governing. They had a bad experience running the country after Mubarak. They aren’t trained to do police work, they’re trained to fight wars and defend borders.
But two things happened. First, we had a massive outpouring against Morsi due to his frankly undemocratic rule of the country and his bid to consolidate power for the Muslim Brotherhood.
Second, Morsi completely lost control of the state. By the time the protests started on June 30, he didn’t control anything. He didn’t control the police and he obviously didn’t control the military. He didn’t control any of the institutions of government, and it made his presidency untenable. So the military stepped in, somewhat reluctantly, first to respond to the protests and also to prevent impending state failure.
But once the army made the decision to step in, as reluctant as it may have been, it’s modus operandi unquestionably changed. It entered into a direct conflict with the Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps even an existential one. The military believes it not only has to remove Morsi, it has to decapitate the entire organization. Otherwise, the Brotherhood will re-emerge and perhaps kill the generals who removed it from power.
That’s what’s in Egypt’s future right now—persistent civil strife between the military and its supporters on one side and the Brotherhood and its supporters on the other.
There’s likely to be a steady flow of violence, but it probably won’t be ubiquitous. It will consist in pockets around demonstration sites. It will be bad enough to disrupt life, and it will likely undermine a transition moving forward, but it probably won’t be as ugly as in Syria or Algeria.
I think the Brotherhood won’t get it back. It’s highly unlikely that Morsi will see the light of day outside a courtroom. But it’s a fight that’s going to continue for a while, and it’s a fight that many of those celebrating in the square that evening didn’t think about. Egyptian society is so polarized right now that the anti-Morsi camp and the pro-Morsi camp are beyond talking past each other. They exist in their own separate universes.
The Brotherhood’s power is not derived from mass public support and it never has been. It is derived from its exceptional organization capabilities on one hand, and the fact that the rest of Egypt is deeply divided and highly disorganized on the other. That’s still the case. I think if Egypt had free and fair elections today, the Brotherhood would still do well and might even win because nobody else is prepared to run in an election.
the nature of the Brotherhood is about to change because the military is decapitating it. It’s hard to see right now exactly who will emerge, but whoever emerges given the current trajectory will need significant military support.
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/truth-about-egypt
Attention Egyptian Art people on FR:
Here is a picture list of many stolen items by the MB protesters recently... for those who want to watch for these and return them to Egypt’s museum...I suspect the MBS were dropping so much money sustaining the encampments they figure stealing these relics would replenish their coffeers....
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.675090315854366.1073741831.648057078557690&type=3
Americans have always been facinated with Egypt...and they with Americans....they’ve been an ally for decades, even though bumpy at times, the relationship has been pretty solid...Obama is not helping that nor does he understand the people. He, as usual, says what he wants without considering the nature and culture of those he’s dealing with.
They will not survive well for long without the tourists they attract....these protests and the upheavals from are of course affecting their tourist trade enourmously...and grow worse as nations are calling their people out from there or to remain in their hotels. Coupled with Morsi pretty much destroying the country the year he was there when he should have been in recovery mode from Mubarraks resignation.
So they are not in the best of shape right now...and without the Emerites etc. contributing...they’d be in a steep decline now.
Egyptian society is so polarized right now that the anti-Morsi camp and the pro-Morsi camp are beyond talking past each other. They exist in their own separate universes.
This struck me. Sadly reminds me of this country.
Watching cbs network news last nite. The anchor scott pelly said "New unemployment claims dropped 15,000 to 320,000. The news was so good, the stock market dropped 250 points on fears the fed will tighten the money supply."
Whether its the egypt, the economy or whatever else, its all propaghanda. Very sad.
The world is basically unsettled now...Obama certainly has done much to make that realized by other nations through the weakness and incompetence he has here ...and his great lack of foreign policy toward the nations overall.
Your comparison of Egypts polarization to ours is half correct IMO....we are an armed nation...Egyptians aren’t.
Looks like time for a show of force and they are not going to mess with the Brotherhood any more...times up! Think they’ll take the hint?
Egypt update:
It’s time...prayers have ended ....Protesters already gathering in front of Al-Fath mosque to protest at Ramsis square. No security at the perimeter.
Mornin’ all.
INDEED YOU GOT IT!
Ahmed el Banna says:
“To the brothers who rumor-mongering that the account is stolen because I mentioned churches!!! I actually say that churches are targets...we’re no longer peaceful...”
I’ll summarize the rest, no time for literally translating every lousy word of his.
He talked about “black block being Copts!” NOT TRUE, they’re very secretive and nobody knows who they are except that they’re young and fed up of the MB shenanigans, they meet violence with violence when it occurs. I saw a couple of them interviewed on Own TV. THEY WERE MASKED AND REFUSED TO ANSWER SOME POINTED QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR ORGANIZATION OR CERTAIN INCIDENTS.
El Banna is calling the “trembling and scared people” out and accusing Copts of piling weapons and having “thugs” in churches!
Updates:
.....’Downtown’ Cairo completely empty, no police (CSF) deployed, tanks blocking main streets leading to Tahrir, military police in charge.
......army blocks ‘entrances’ to Tahrir Square in advance of big Muslim Brotherhood march...Egyptians brace for another day of possible violence
......Tahrir ‘closed to all civilians’ no matter what. All entrances blocked for the next 24 hours
.......Saadat metro station is shut, trains not stopping there.... Army really doesn’t want people gathering in Tahrir today
......Police have taken Iman mosque in cairo after brief stand off
.....Reuters Journalist states “45 minutes sleep - I’m going to be hallucinating by lunch time. Too. much. work.”(....no wonder they aren’t able to see the truth let alone report it!)
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