New map may explain Lee's decisions at Gettysburg

Yahoo News ^ | June 29,2013 | Michael Rubinkam

[Kenny Bunk]

Thank you Moonman. BTW, that statue is cast from the bronze of cannon captured by Thomas ... or so legend would have it.

Amazing that the tragedy of the Civil War is still on our minds ... and is where it should stay.

[FreedomPoster]

Here, this would appear to be that show:

“A Chain of Thunder: A Novel of the Siege of Vicksburg”

Jeff Shaara

http://www.booktv.org/Program/14605/A+Chain+of+Thunder+A+Novel+of+the+Siege+of+Vicksburg.aspx

BookTV is a CSPAN2 web site.

[Sans-Culotte]

I agree nothing new in this research, but I enjoy the map. Once Ewell failed to take Culp’s Hill it was unwinnable by Lee.

[Kenny Bunk]

the 20th Maine single handledly held off the Rebel Army.

Of course Col. Chamberlain did exactly that, taking a minié ball in the unmentionables while he was at it. Or so we were taught when Maine still had functioning public schools.

When I visited Gettysburg, I was informed that troops from other states were present. A damned lie and obvious propaganda, Sir! They would have only gotten in the way of the valiant troops from Maine.

Why, without the interference of troops from away, the men of Maine would have had this insurrection quelled in 1862!

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Very good. LOL!

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

There is no doubt that the Union defeated the Army of Northern Virginia at Gettysburg. The Southern Army and its commanders are always and forever felt to be gallant and noble. There is the concept, not understood today, of the noble enemy. The idea is partially illustrated by Grant’s statement regarding Lee: “ No finer man ever served a worse cause.” Lee was the noble enemy.

[TomasUSMC]

I think Lee had very long supply lines which were vunerable and he didn’t have time on his side. Thus going offensive was a good option before the Yanks started to hit his long supply tail.

OTOH, he should have know that before he wandered in Pennsylvania.

Everytime Lee went into Yankee territory he got hit hard. Maybe offensive action in enemy territory was his weak point?

[DeWalt]

Your right and the earlier loss of Jackson crippled Lee.

[RicocheT]

On the first day of the battle, leading elements of both armies met at Gettysburg, clashed, the North moved to the the high ground and the South failed to dislodge them.

At the beginning of the second day, Longstreet advised Lee to disengage and move towards Washington in order to look for better ground. Lee decided to stay, fight and took heavy losses for the next two days, losing the battle.

[Rocky]

I sometimes wonder what would happen if our forces lost access to a lot of that stuff - computers, GPS, etc.

Such as with an EMP weapon, or solar disturbances.

[gura]

Wars, whether necessary like 1812, or unnecessary, like 1898 and WWI, lead inexorably to centralized Federal power and away from the original Constitution and the rights of sovereign states. We are still organized for war, not for peace nor for government as envisioned by our Founders.

Comment of the week IMHO.

[mason-dixon]

It has been said that Lee, possibly had a stroke during the Gburg campaign, no longer had Stonewall Jackson, Jeb Stuart didn’t help and he faced a stronger Union force in Meade holding better field positions!!!

[Captain Rhino]

Thanks for your replies and the link.

Reading through the Wikipedia links and a short link on Cashtown, the understanding I have is that, as you wrote Kenny Bunk, Lee intended to fight a defensive battle on favorable ground at Cashtown but allowed a subordinate, A.P. Hill to become decisively engaged at Gettysburg and allowing that decision to stand (i.e. not ordering A.P Hill to immediately disengage and follow the plan to concentrate for battle at Cashtown) consequently permitted the battle strategy to shift from one to be fought on favorable defensive terms to one that was fought on unfavorable offensive terms.

Longstreet's recommendation to convert the situation to a defensive battle at the end of Day One (1 July 1863), as you note in the citation from the link Flag_This, has two problems: 1) considerable Confederate blood already has been shed in achieving the ground gained on Day One and 2) exactly where was this defensive position across Meade's lines of communication that Longstreet wanted to move the Army of Northern Virginia to? Even had Lee wanted to follow Longstreet's advice, he had no way of quickly obtaining detailed knowledge of the terrain and the enemy situation to the south of Gettyburg thanks to the absence of J.E.B. Stuart. The only place he had prepared for defensive battle at was back up at Cashtown. Passing over the practical problems of actually shifting the entire Army of Northern Virginia across the front of Mede's entrenching and swelling forces, taking up a defensive position to the south of Gettysburg would have put Lee in the difficult position of being attacked by Union forces from up to three directions at once: from the North, the South, and the East.

[RJL]

Interactive map:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/A-Cutting-Edge-Second-Look-at-the-Battle-of-Gettysburg.html

Thanks for posting, good stuff.

[Flag_This]

"I think Lee had very long supply lines which were vunerable and he didn’t have time on his side."

I think Time was always THE biggest enemy of the Confederacy. The confederates kept pummeling the Union in the East, but they just wouldn't quit; meanwhile, the north continued churning out soldiers and weapons in numbers the south could never match. I think I once heard (so I could be completely wrong) that Meade had two complete corps sitting around at Gettysburg that were never engaged - which makes Lincoln's fury at him for not pursuing Lee immediately after the battle much more understandable.

[Mad Dawgg]

"I think Stuart’s role was not so much to cooperate with Pickett in the attack as to exploit the confusion created by Pickett’s successful attack."

Stewart's attack started long before Pickett started. Stewart was to get into the rear during the initial artillery fire mission and split the front. But he got tangled up well before noon on Pickett didn't start until after 2PM.

I've a book that was written just a few years back based on some newly found documents that dealt with the Gettysburg Battle. Much of the documents dealt with Stewart and his orders to attack the rear. He was supposed to get into position and when the Confederate barrage stopped he was to probe the Union lines in the rear and try for a break thru and Hopefully meet Pickett coming through from the other side. He never got close because of the ferocity of the infantry he met and then the hammer dropped on him by Custer's reckless charge.

[Tau Food]

Surely, God had the greatest role in determining the outcome.

[Sherman Logan]

it makes it look like the 20th Maine single handledly held off the Rebel Army.

I suspect to the 20th that's exactly what it felt like! :)

I wish what the 1st Minnesota did was a little more widely known. The heroism of the 20th Maine is inspiring, but I expect they'd give the palm to the 1st MN.

[Sherman Logan]

Wars, whether necessary like 1812, or unnecessary, like 1898 and WWI, lead inexorably to centralized Federal power and away from the original Constitution and the rights of sovereign states. We are still organized for war, not for peace nor for government as envisioned by our Founders.

Agreed, except I'd give you an argument on 1812 being "necessary."

It is also difficult to make out a case for the Mexican War being "necessary."

[0.E.O]

Johnston was one hell of a brilliant general, especially considering his results/resources ratio.

Johnston hated Davis and the feeling was mutual. That put a crimp in any command he held.