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1 posted on 04/21/2013 11:22:36 AM PDT by OKRA2012
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To: OKRA2012

Somebody’s in big trouble.


2 posted on 04/21/2013 11:23:21 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: OKRA2012

Who owns/operates this plant?


3 posted on 04/21/2013 11:25:05 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: OKRA2012

There was a school and a nursing home right across the street from this plant. It’s a Federal felony to get within 1,000 ft. of a school with a lawfully carried firearm but there aren’t any regulations about how close you can put an ammonium nitrate plant?


5 posted on 04/21/2013 11:27:40 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
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To: OKRA2012
400-lbs vs 270 tons? The calculator melted. Someone in accounting is in for a load of shiite.


7 posted on 04/21/2013 11:29:18 AM PDT by Carriage Hill (No one can go back and make a new start, but anyone can start from now, and make a new ending.)
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To: OKRA2012

oops


12 posted on 04/21/2013 11:34:15 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: OKRA2012

I note DHS is up West Fertilizers ***, but let the Boston Bombers go 2 years ago.


13 posted on 04/21/2013 11:34:15 AM PDT by mylife (Opinions $1, Half Baked 50c)
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To: OKRA2012

... Ahh, yes, the witchhunt begins, how dare a plant report to multiple agencies and leave one of the billion alphabet soups off of the list.

DHS’s actual involvement, had the amount been reported (which, I notice, very few reporters have bothered to even ask the question, how many fertilizer plants are out of compliance with this demand...) would be to make helpful suggestions by sending out a couple different brochures on plant safety, and then require hundreds of pictures of the plant site, security layout, security equipment, etc.

But you know why we know exactly how much the plant held (and note, that the number in the article is at the maximum capacity)? Because they submitted reports for Texas oversight as well as EPA requirements. OH MY! They hid in absolute plain sight.

I’ve not taken a look at the relevant DHS regulation or how it was published, but if I was a reporter being fed information by the DHS, my first question would be: Didn’t you pick up the blue book and copy down all the addresses of fertilizer plants in the United States and send them letters notifying them of your requirement? Because the odd thing is, DHS has been quoted as saying they didn’t know that the plant even existed!

The amount of regulation that any manufacturing plant is under is staggering, and for a small business, compliance can be a full time job for half of the workforce.


14 posted on 04/21/2013 11:34:27 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: OKRA2012

Honestly who cares about the reporting. They shouldn’t have had it at a plant located in that area.


16 posted on 04/21/2013 11:34:51 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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Homeland security requires certain plants to comply with CFATS rules.
(CFATS = chemical facility anti terrorism)
These rules are about internal security at the plant...
controlling access...
people being on a need-to-know basis...
and the rules have NOTHING to so with safety...
I know this because I am certified for CFATS.


24 posted on 04/21/2013 11:40:07 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: OKRA2012
Think I would wait for a statement from the state of Texas on this before I would listen to any crap from DHS or Reuters.
The article looks like vague BS.
27 posted on 04/21/2013 11:44:23 AM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: OKRA2012

So?! Big Sis fails to report large amounts of cellulose nitrate too. /s


30 posted on 04/21/2013 11:47:42 AM PDT by llevrok (2013: America is in a cold civil war.)
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To: OKRA2012

Obviously the plant’s 270 tons of nitrate exceeded the quantity distance formula by being so close to a town.


42 posted on 04/21/2013 12:10:34 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: OKRA2012

BS. People handling that stuff are highly trained to handle it. What is the government not telling us and what are they up too? Why all of the sudden are we being attacked?


45 posted on 04/21/2013 12:15:03 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: OKRA2012
This is a huge diversion....a useless canard...

This plant manufactures the stuff....That amount in tonnage is virtually nothing...

270 tons = 540,000 lbs = 5,400 bags of fertilizer.(if bagged in 100lb sacks)Or they sometimes palletize it in much larger sacks that hold on e ton each.

That is a fairly reasonable amount to fill one single order from a distributor...

Nobody is in trouble....and there is nothing unusual about the quantity.

On top of that, it was not the finished product that initiated the explosion. To set of fertilizer you need certain conditions to occur. You need heat and pressure.

The explosion, IMO was set off by a exploding tank of anhydrous ammonia, that had over heated due to a fire, most probably at the loading dock. The fertilizer was probably nearby, waiting to be shipped.

Not knowing any of the specifics directly from the investigators yet, this scenario is the first one I had and the only one I have considered. I see this as a unfortunate but explainable industrial accident that could have been much worse had the anhydrous ammonia not been mostly consumed by the explosion. Anhydrous ammonia is used in the manufacture of the nitrates needed for fertilizers...It is converted to ammonium nitrate, which is usually then mixed with additives to create the specific type of fertilizer desired. There is nothing unusual about any of this, but that will not stop anti-business interests who have been on a rolling bandwagon destroying companies from coast to coast since the Enron mess.... Have a nice day.

77 posted on 04/21/2013 1:19:45 PM PDT by Cold Heat
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To: OKRA2012

I think people are misreading this information...

They have to DISCLOSE if they have more than 400lbs. The 400lbs is not a limit, it is a marker of when reporting is required.

The plant failed to report? It is a paper pushing issue...


89 posted on 04/21/2013 1:47:06 PM PDT by EBH (Warning this person is a Catholic, Tea Party Patriot, and owns a copy of Atlas Shurgged)
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To: OKRA2012

Last I checked there were 76 replies. Not a one knew what the hell they were posting about. Most ammonium nitrate comes from Chile. Irrigation farmers and your household fertilizers mix it with water to apply. If you look at the ingredients in Miracle Grow it’s in there. It needs a double bump (precussion) to become an effective explosive otherwise it can burn harmlessly . Anhydrous Ammonia is is used as a fertilizer but reacts violently to water it is ammonia with the water removed.


102 posted on 04/21/2013 2:29:19 PM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause..Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
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To: OKRA2012

400 lbs would be about 5-7 bags of fertilizer.

270 ton is only about 185 - 300 cubic yards of ammonium nitrate, depending upon the actual fertilizer composition.

I believe the plant had anhydrous ammonia, as a process feedstock. So I doubt they had that much on hand, but they probably had more than several 20yd dumps of fertilizer available on stock.

Figure about 50-100 lbs/Acre for Sorgham-Sudan crops and that is only enough production for about 10-20 sections of crops.

People are just looking to blame somebody, when life is much simpler.

A more significant issue is to investigate if the fire was just an accident or intentionally set in close proximity of the Texas City explosion.


148 posted on 04/21/2013 8:48:36 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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