Posted on 03/18/2013 7:09:04 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
With the election of Pope Francis, there has been an almost "catholic" attempt to determine if he is liberal or conservative. CBS claims he is a "staunch conservative" based on the fact that, as correspondent Allen Pizzey put it, he "opposes abortion, supports celibacy, and called gay adoption discrimination against children," not to mention his opposition to faux marriage.
Tingle Central's Chris Matthews said that the new pontiff is economically "progressive," which, if we were to be informed by actual statistics, should mean he wouldn't give one red cent to anybody. But none of these analysts will peg the pope because they're using the provisional to understand a man defined by an institution based in the perpetual. And the reality is this: the terms "liberal," "conservative," and "moderate" are, in the truest sense, meaningless in Catholic circles. And understanding why holds a lesson for all of us.
Republican Ohio senator Rob Portman recently announced that he now supports faux marriage, and other self-proclaimed conservatives, such as CNN News' Margaret Hoover, have long done so. On the other hand, conservative Cliff Kincaid was recently scored by Michelle Malkin's site Twitchy for writing, "There is no such thing as a 'gay conservative,' unless the term 'conservative' has lost all meaning," prompting Renew America's Bryan Fischer to accuse the Malkinites of "trying to redefine conservatism." But Kincaid gets it close to right and Fischer is wrong.
Conservatism never had enduring meaning because it was never truly defined in the first place.
Understand that all places and times -- that is, all modern times -- have had their conservatives. Europe has its conservatives, but their general attitude toward faux marriage ranges from support to blithe indifference, and they don't trouble much over abortion.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
“OK< what if Francis is not really against the Tridentine mass, but is giving Roman Catholics the choice to attend the kind of mass that edifies them more?”
Videos show that he doesn’t genuflect when at the altar.
To quote Ann Barnhardt:
Here is the full video of Pope Francis’ first Mass in the Sistine Chapel.
The consecration of the Host happens at 51:47. The consecration of the Chalice happens at 52:32.
I cannot believe I am about to type these words.
The Pope DID NOT GENUFLECT after either consecration. He did a weird bow thing, but didn’t feel the need to bend his knee to God Almighty, physically present in his hands upon the altar.
HE. DID. NOT. GENUFLECT.
This is absolutely stunning. And unprecedented.
...He FREELY CHOOSES to not reverence Our Lord in the Eucharist upon the altar.
http://www.barnhardt.biz
Oh, we are in deep, deep trouble.
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - March 16, AD 2013 8:08 PM MST
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As a Roman Catholic, I will make my choice and attend Cathoic mass at Eastern Cathoic rite churches, probably Ukrainian.
I am just waiting to see if the new Pope will be “un-wafer-ing” as an anti-abortionist and not give communion to certain pro-abortion politicians in attendance at his installation mass.
If the most evangelical groups had actually showed up to the polls, Obama would not have taken Virginia, Florida, or Ohio.
I don't believe that; No one actually does. How does one quantify that? I am Catholic, and no one asked me if I was Catholic at the voting booth. Just another bogus "poll"......
It always makes sense to defend the actual Obama voting group and to attack the most republican voting group in America, for their voting, if one’s politics call for that.
Sure, election after election, after election, after election, for 100 years and lets all pretend that it isn’t real and that there is no such thing as exit polling and connecting religion and voting.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between a Roman Catholic and other Catholics? Is it like the difference between say a Anglican and a Baptist?
I keep hearing that Pope Francis is a Jesuit. His actions so far seem to be appealing to protestants like myself. I am sensing that this is an unwelcome change to the Catholic faith.
A little research please:
From the National Catholic Reporter (a liberal paper):
“The Society of Jesus, a Catholic order founded in the 16th century by St. Ignatius Loyola. Its members, known as Jesuits, take a vow of poverty and are known for their work among the poor and their scholarship.
Perhaps helping him overcome the traditional reluctance to elect a Jesuit pope, he fell out of favor among some Jesuits in Argentina after he was elected to the title of Jesuit provincial in 1973.
Argentina was ruled in the late 1970s by a brutal military dictatorship, and many Jesuits were drawn to a progressive activist movement within the church known as liberation theology. Church leaders backed the dictatorship publicly, and Bergoglio discouraged priests from political activism.”
But just so you know:
Pope Francis very strongly opposed liberation theology, on the grounds that it sought to assist the poor through strictly worldly ways (i.e., socialist intervention). That opposition probably cost him the papal election the last time, as he was hammered by absurd allegations he abetted war crimes by the fascistic military Junta, and made him somewhat of a pariah among many Jesuit institutions.
(I think the Holy Spirit desired a few years out of Benedict XVI to finish and balance John Paul II’s work of routing out heresies.)
They do. Everyone does. This Pope has been paying attention to what is going on in the West - the heretical tendencies. He fought the same in Argentina.
the church is growing everywhere else (save some places, of course) but is in decline in the West due to secularism.
The Holy See is aware even if most people in this country are not aware.
Probably. But then we'd had an abortion-loving Father of same-sex "marriage" in the U.S. and author of the Obamacare model instead.
Can't much blame them. I didn't vote for the Leftist with the "R" next to his name, either.
Catholics went for BO 50% to 48%
Just the quickest click of the google button gives folks so much more than they want to know:
Bill Clinton / Al Gore Democratic 55-35/55-37/53-37[4] Bob Dole / Jack Kemp
2000 George W. Bush / Dick Cheney Democratic 52-46/50-49/50-47[4] Al Gore / Joe Lieberman
2004 George W. Bush / Dick Cheney Republican 52-48/51-48/47-52[4] John Kerry / John Edwards
2008 Barack Obama / Joe Biden Democrat 53-47/57-43/54-45[4] John McCain / Sarah Palin
2012 Barack Obama / Joe Biden Democrat 50-48[19] Mitt Romney / Paul Ryan
It was done away with in Vatican II.
When people are more Catholic than the Pope, watch out.
RE: It was done away with in Vatican II.
Not sure what “done away” means.
Pope Benedict XVI issued a motu proprio called Summorum Pontificum on 7 July 2007, together with an accompanying letter to the world’s Bishops.
Benedict declared that “the Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI is the ordinary expression of the lex orandi (law of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin rite.
Nevertheless, the Roman Missal promulgated by St. Pius V and reissued by Pope John XXIII is to be considered as an extraordinary expression of that same ‘Lex orandi’”.
He further stated that “the 1962 Missal ... was never juridically abrogated”.
He replaced with new rules those of Quattuor Abhinc Annos on use of the older form: essentially, authorization for using the 1962 form for parish Masses and those celebrated on public occasions such as a wedding is devolved from the local bishop to the priest in charge of a church, and any priest of the Latin Rite may use the 1962 Roman Missal in “Masses celebrated without the people”, a term that does not exclude attendance by other worshippers, lay or clergy.
See here:
there is no such thing as a militant Catholic. Militant people who think they’re Catholic, maybe.
Practicing Catholics, those who know Catholicism, are a small percentage of people who call themselves Catholic. They are joined, by thinking and in formed people, with other practicing religious as a voting bloc.
There is, according to the papal biographer, George Weigel, no Catholic voting bloc any more.
Catholics are misled by western leadership and even misguided clergy.
When they make it their business to know then they practice their faith.
The Pope is aware of this, as were the last two, who wrote extensively on this.
Catholics do not militarily convert, there is a freedom of choice involved, as God gives freedom of choice.
oh yes, and my dad thinks the Democratic party embodies Catholic teaching which I find to be completely ridiculous. He and I do not even speak anymore, I think he is so twisted about this issue.
You are so right, but my point was, the libs think anyone who attends a church is a conservative, which is total garbage
This is one of the best explanations for “Why I’m not a liberal, democrat, progressive, conservative, republican, etc.” I’ve read in a long time.
Most people who call themselves Catholic, whether they are or not practicing Catholics, vote for the Dem by at least 50% going way back before this current virulently anti-Catholic media.
Latinos, that the USCCB love, went 76% Obama.
Of course they did! Many of them quit our parish and school after being told from the pulpit they cannot vote pro abortion and stay in the state of grace.
Of course they did. I’m attending Mass my whole life. I’ve heard “don’t participate in abortion by supporting these people” by one out of I don’t know how many priests.
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