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To: SeekAndFind

The original designation was in Latin, Franciscus, as that’s the language used in the announcement:

“The cardinal proto-deacon of the Catholic Church, Jean Louis-Taran, announced the news to those gathered in St. Peter’s Square, with the traditional words:

Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum: Habemus Papam.
Eminentissimum ac reverendissimum Dominum, Dominum Georgium Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalem Bergoglium.
Qui sibi nomen imposuit Franciscum.

Translated:

I announce to you a great joy: We have a pope:
The most eminent and honorable lord, Lord Jorge Cardinal Bergoglio of the Holy Roman Church,
Who has taken for himself the name Francis.”

In South America, at least in the Spanish-speaking countries of that continent, he is known as Francisco Primero. (Remember, he is Francis the First, not Francis One.)

My comment about his name being “Francis, not Frances,” was a tongue-in-cheek response to a poster who described him (due to a typo, I assume) as “the first Latina pope.”


235 posted on 03/13/2013 4:37:12 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll defend your rights?)
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To: AuH2ORepublican; SeekAndFind; FamiliarFace; afraidfortherepublic; Rocky Mountain Wild Turkey
>> Anytime God wanted someone to go announce his plans to all the world, most of the time He changes their names ... <<

That's not the reason why Popes change their name. Peter's name was changed from Simon, but most of the Popes from the first millennium of Christianity kept their baptismal name upon becoming Pope. The first one to officially change it was Pope John II. His birth name was Mercury and they thought it was inappropriate for the Pope to have the name of a pagan god. It didn't become the norm to change the name until 400 years later, and even then, there are two Popes in the last 1000 years who kept their baptismal names anyway. Pope Marcellus II (born Marcello Cervini degli Spannochi) in the 1500s was the most recent to break the tradition and keep his baptismal name. Any Pope could choose to keep his baptismal name, but I'm glad this guy went with Pope Francis and not Pope Jorge or Pope George or whatever.

>> My question is why he is designated Francis I? Just plain Francis should be sufficient until there is a Francis II. <<

I agree. Looking at other Popes to have a new name, I see they're listed as Pope Linus, Pope Zephyrinus, Pope Fabian, Pope Liberius, Pope Lando, etc., I see they're listed simply by their papal name in lists of Popes, there's no "I" added to the end of it unless someone else takes the same later on. (i.e. Pope Celestine was retroactively listed as "Celestine I" when Celestine II became Pope). Odd thing, I think Pope John Paul I was officially called "John Paul I" before John Paul II was elected. I'm not sure what the rules are, given that Pope Francis is the first brand new for a Pope in 963 years (Pope John Paul was a combination of his two immediate predecessors -- John XXIII and Paul VI). I would prefer the media just call him "Pope Francis" myself. "Pope Francis I" when there's no second Pope by that name looks silly, especially since there may never be a Francis II. I don't think anyone is going to be confused and think there was a Pope Francis before this guy.

>> In South America, at least in the Spanish-speaking countries of that continent, he is known as Francisco Primero. (Remember, he is Francis the First, not Francis One.) <<

That's another odd rule. When I took spanish in 7th grade, the spanish teacher had all our birth names latinzed to the spanish form, or found a similar-sounding spanish name to call ourselves in class. Thus, my name was William and I went by "Guillermo" in spanish class. I was later told as an adult that that's not approciate to do in spanish countries (refer to yourself as the spanish form of your name), and that Bill Clinton would still be addressed as "Bill Clinton" in Mexico, Johnny Depp is still called "Johny Depp" by Mexicans, etc. But then I found out the artist Michelangelo is referred to as "Miguel Ángel" in Latin American countries, John Paul II is "Juan Pablo segundo", etc. Can someone please come up with a consistent set of rules for when names from other cultures should be altered to the native language? It seems so random.

246 posted on 03/13/2013 5:32:21 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: AuH2ORepublican; SeekAndFind; FamiliarFace; afraidfortherepublic; Rocky Mountain Wild Turkey
>> Anytime God wanted someone to go announce his plans to all the world, most of the time He changes their names ... <<

That's not the reason why Popes change their name. Peter's name was changed from Simon, but most of the Popes from the first millennium of Christianity kept their baptismal name upon becoming Pope. The first one to officially change it was Pope John II. His birth name was Mercury and they thought it was inappropriate for the Pope to have the name of a pagan god. It didn't become the norm to change the name until 400 years later, and even then, there are two Popes in the last 1000 years who kept their baptismal names anyway. Pope Marcellus II (born Marcello Cervini degli Spannochi) in the 1500s was the most recent to break the tradition and keep his baptismal name. Any Pope could choose to keep his baptismal name, but I'm glad this guy went with Pope Francis and not Pope Jorge or Pope George or whatever.

>> My question is why he is designated Francis I? Just plain Francis should be sufficient until there is a Francis II. <<

I agree. Looking at other Popes to have a new name, I see they're listed as Pope Linus, Pope Zephyrinus, Pope Fabian, Pope Liberius, Pope Lando, etc., I see they're listed simply by their papal name in lists of Popes, there's no "I" added to the end of it unless someone else takes the same later on. (i.e. Pope Celestine was retroactively listed as "Celestine I" when Celestine II became Pope). Odd thing, I think Pope John Paul I was officially called "John Paul I" before John Paul II was elected. I'm not sure what the rules are, given that Pope Francis is the first brand new for a Pope in 963 years (Pope John Paul was a combination of his two immediate predecessors -- John XXIII and Paul VI). I would prefer the media just call him "Pope Francis" myself. "Pope Francis I" when there's no second Pope by that name looks silly, especially since there may never be a Francis II. I don't think anyone is going to be confused and think there was a Pope Francis before this guy.

>> In South America, at least in the Spanish-speaking countries of that continent, he is known as Francisco Primero. (Remember, he is Francis the First, not Francis One.) <<

That's another odd rule. When I took Spanish in 7th grade, the Spanish teacher had all our birth names latinized to the Spanish form, or found a similar-sounding Spanish name to call ourselves in class. Thus, my name was William and I went by "Guillermo" in Spanish class. I was later told as an adult that that's not appropriate to do in Spanish countries (refer to yourself as the Spanish form of your name), and that Bill Clinton would still be addressed as "Bill Clinton" in Mexico, Johnny Depp is still called "Johnny Depp" by Mexicans, etc. But then I found out the artist Michelangelo is referred to as "Miguel Ángel" in Latin American countries, John Paul II is "Juan Pablo segundo", etc. Can someone please come up with a consistent set of rules for when names from other cultures should be altered to the native language? It seems so random.

247 posted on 03/13/2013 5:34:27 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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