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To: Will88
Well, you should give Obamacare your full support because it authorizes the ‘death panels’ designed to deny care to the ‘old’ just as you think should happen.

Like I said, I'm against all government involvement in health care.

And, I would never deny care to the old. The patient should make that decision, and pay for it.

This problem has really only developed in the last half century. Prior to that, no one wasted huge amounts of money to unnecessarily extend the lives of people who were dying. For thousands of years, we had the good sense to "let them go" when their bodies wore out. Death is normal. Death is natural. Death is good.

19 posted on 03/03/2013 10:55:14 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Tau Food
And, I would never deny care to the old. The patient should make that decision, and pay for it.

Neither you nor anyone else will ever have health care or any other large issue just as they want it. It's very cavalier and easy to say that: "The patient should make that decision, and pay for it," concerning health care. But with the cost of health care these days very few could pay for their care, and fewer and fewer can afford adequate insurance coverage.

It's a complicated issue and it won't be solved by Obamacare, or by cavalier and easily thrown around statements such as yours.

The only real solution was/is an economy that provides enough good jobs that a large majority of citizens can afford their own health insurance. But we are getting further and further away from that so we can be sure that the people will vote themselves "free" health care are long as that situtation exists.

28 posted on 03/03/2013 11:43:26 AM PST by Will88
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To: Tau Food
This problem has really only developed in the last half century. Prior to that, no one wasted huge amounts of money to unnecessarily extend the lives of people who were dying. For thousands of years, we had the good sense to "let them go" when their bodies wore out. Death is normal. Death is natural. Death is good.

You are correct (at least partially) that this problem developed in the last half of the century, but your cause is way off. It wasn't that people didn't waste huge sums of money to unnecssarily extend the lives of people who were dying. Instead the medical advances had not been discovered. So no amount of money could have allowed you to to even attempt to extend your life. It was a fact of life, and people accepted this fact of life because there was no alternative.

However, with the advancement of medical technology, procedures, equiptment, and medicines it is no longer a fact of life. Lives can be extended. Government got involved in healthcare, not to extend the lives of very old people who were close to death, but more so to aid the poor who could not afford health insurance. This is why most Americans did not object. The problem was small and the costs were not prohibitive.

I know you say now, because you are no doubt young, that old people should just be left to die. I wonder if you will hold the same beliefs when you get old. I wonder if you will have reason to extend your miserable life, even if it is only for a few more years.

I have health insurance, but that being said I do not run to the doctor every time I feel a little bit sick. But that is because I was the son of a doctor and was taught to wait until it got worse before seeking medical attention. Fortunately in my 60 years I have not really needed the services of the medical profession except for 3 times. Once for a piece of gless that lodged in my right rear calf that required stitches, once for a hernia that required an out patient surgery procedure, and the third time for a snake bite from a baby copperhead (that one cost me 66,600). Needless to say I check really carefully before I pick up something in the yard now!!!

The reason I mention this is because too many people who have health insurance run to the doctor, or more importantly to the emergency room, more often than they need to. Why? Because they were not paying for it, their health insurance was paying for it. But this unnecessary activity caused health insurance providers to raise their rates. Not because the health insurance providers wer mean, but becuase there was more demand placed upon them.

So your analogy that government caused heath care costs to go up is only partially correct again. The blame lies with each and every individual seeking medical attention. Especially when it is not needed, which was caused by our not having to pay for it directly. I am not blaming us, I am just saying we have a share in the blame.

I know I have been blessed to have required so little need to seek medical attention, but there are those that do need medical attention and on an ongoing basis. My wife falls in that category, and for that reason I do not mind speanding a little extra for those who have the need, but I do think that government forcing everyone to participate is either pure evil or misguided compassion. But one thing is for sure, we cannot afford to keep saddling our children with more and more debt. They should be allowed to create their own debt.

Let me conclude that while I may agree with your original argument (at least some if not most) I totally disagree with the manner in which you presented it. First you attempted to argue that our health care costs issues can all be laid at the feet of old people for trying to extend their miserable lives. While old people may require more than young people it is true, we old people have paid our dues my young friend. Secondly, most of us old people have no more miserable of a life than young people. In many ways we have less miserable lives. Thirdly, peoples choices have attributed to the overall costs of health care. Drug usage, alcohol useage, cigarette usage, aberrant sexual activities, even food consumption play a big part in health care costs rising. Medical advances have been another reason, as these have required greater costs in education (both time & money) and development & acquisition of equipment. One last reason, which many argue is the greatest reason, is the cost of litigation, created by our ever expanding litigious society that was not as prevalent 50 years or so ago.

If you had just stuck to your contention that governement need not be involved I would have said you are 100% correct.

35 posted on 03/03/2013 12:23:09 PM PST by Robert DeLong (u)
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