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Secret 'no-fly zone'?
AOPA ^ | January 10, 2013 | Sarah Brown

Posted on 01/11/2013 9:14:16 AM PST by KeyLargo

Secret 'no-fly zone'?

Pilot seeks answers after arrest

By Sarah Brown

Pilots returned, one by one, to Bermuda High Soaring in Jefferson, S.C. By about 5 p.m. on July 26, 2012, the lift had died and everyone had returned to the gliderport—everyone except Robin Fleming. No one remembered hearing from Fleming since 1:30 or 2 p.m., and Jayne Ewing Reid, co-owner and chief tow pilot of the glider club and commercial operation, was worried.

She called pilots who lived in the region and asked them to try to contact Fleming on their handheld radios. She flew the club’s Piper Pawnee in the direction of Fleming’s last known radio call, but found no evidence of the missing glider or its pilot.

“This is when you get that feeling that something’s not right,” she said. Fleming always called if he landed out. Worried that something had happened to Fleming, an avid glider pilot and instructor at Bermuda High, Jayne Ewing Reid and business partner Frank Reid decided to file a missing airplane report. Neither suspected that Fleming was in trouble with the law.

Fleming, 70, had been arrested for breach of peace after flying his Rolladen-Schneider LS8-18 sailplane noiselessly over the H.B. Robinson Nuclear Generating Station at an altitude of 1,518 feet msl—by his estimates, about 1,000 feet over the power plant’s dome—on his way to search for lift at nearby Lake Robinson.

No airspace restrictions were printed on sectional charts; no notam marked the area off-limits. When a woman at Hartsville Regional Airport relayed over the Unicom that law enforcement wanted him to land, he had flown to that airport and landed, greeted by a swarm of law enforcement vehicles.

Nonetheless, Fleming spent the night awake in a cell with 11 other inmates.

(Excerpt) Read more at aopa.org ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: aviationping; govtabuse; teaparty; tyranny

1 posted on 01/11/2013 9:14:23 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

A secret no-fly zone seems incredibly stupid to me.
You can’t expect pilots to be clairvoyant.


2 posted on 01/11/2013 9:22:06 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Children, pets, and slaves get taken care of. Free Men take care of themselves.)
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To: KeyLargo; Tijeras_Slim; FireTrack; Pukin Dog; citabria; B Knotts; kilowhskey; cyphergirl; ...
AVIATION PING
3 posted on 01/11/2013 9:22:36 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo; Tijeras_Slim; FireTrack; Pukin Dog; citabria; B Knotts; kilowhskey; cyphergirl; ...
AVIATION PING
4 posted on 01/11/2013 9:23:34 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

Ignorance of the secret laws is no excuse. < /sarc>


5 posted on 01/11/2013 9:24:07 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: KeyLargo

This is where you file lawsuits and seek to have the prosecutor disbarred.


6 posted on 01/11/2013 9:25:22 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
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To: KeyLargo

As America seeks to emulate the former Soviet Union in every way, look for more and more secret laws that people will be arrested, prosecuted, and jailed for.


7 posted on 01/11/2013 9:25:22 AM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: Lazamataz

Video:

Obama signs bill ‘in secret’ making FREE SPEECH ILLEGAL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKjy0PDlKV4


8 posted on 01/11/2013 9:29:41 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Lazamataz
Yup, agree completely.
In fact, great observation on your part of things happening and to come.
9 posted on 01/11/2013 9:32:24 AM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: KarlInOhio

LOL! That nails the level of absurdity we’ve reached in modern America. Haven’t seen the likes of it since the days of the old Soviet Union.


10 posted on 01/11/2013 9:32:38 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: Lazamataz

In Stalin’s Russia, the arrests for violating “secret” laws were also “secret”. People just disappeared in the middle of the night never to be seen or heard from again. What an effect method to terrorize a weaponless population into submission.


11 posted on 01/11/2013 9:34:53 AM PST by downtownconservative
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To: stylecouncilor

Stick and Rudder ping....


12 posted on 01/11/2013 9:35:58 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Lazamataz

Wow, interesting that we made what is essentially the same point about the Soviet Union. And as usual, you’re about six steps ahead of me, Laz! :-)


13 posted on 01/11/2013 9:39:50 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: KeyLargo
He didn't know he was on double-secret probation?

-PJ

14 posted on 01/11/2013 9:41:03 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: KeyLargo
When his attorney returned and said the case would be dismissed if he agreed not to take any legal action against Darlington County law enforcement, he said, he reluctantly agreed.

This is double jeopardy. If LEO's can arrest you on made up charges, and then tell you that they will drop the charges if you agree not to assert your own rights against false imprisonment, then no one is safe anywhere ever. I might have stood and fought the charges, just so I could press criminal charges against the local yokels here.

15 posted on 01/11/2013 9:41:46 AM PST by tpmintx (Gun free zones are hunting preserves for unarmed people.)
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To: KeyLargo
arrested for breach of peace after flying his Rolladen-Schneider LS8-18 sailplane noiselessly over the H.B. Robinson Nuclear Generating Station

I'm no pilot but you might not want to be soaring over nuclear power plants.

16 posted on 01/11/2013 9:43:05 AM PST by McGruff (No New RINOs!)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

Yes. I read the article and the guy agreed not to take legal action against the Darlington Police, if the charges were dropped. BIG mistake. he should have sued them for several million, and an apology.


17 posted on 01/11/2013 9:50:37 AM PST by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
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To: McGruff

This demonstrates the dearth of common sense prevalent in the LEO ranks of small town, USA.

If the glider was an explosive laden, suicide bomb, it would have been over before the police were ever called.

That the police were present when the local airport operator called the FAA and the FAA said there was no violation, indicates they (police) didn’t need “no stinkin violation” they were looking for chance to go full SWAT on the guy.

The Police Chief should be fired and the others put on unpaid leave, at least.


18 posted on 01/11/2013 9:56:53 AM PST by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
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To: McGruff

If you read the story, the pilot’s intent was not to fly over the powerplant, but in the unpowered, small glider he was seeking rising air to gain altitude that day.


19 posted on 01/11/2013 9:57:06 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

I live and fly a RV6A out of FL37.
Just this morning I took off and flew towards the area just outside of Fort Pierce International Airspace south and was heading towards the ocean where I regularly fly south along Hutchinson Island and go either directly over the Saint Lucie Nuclear Power plant or I go over the Indian River.
I’ve NEVER have a problem but me thinks this guys problem is that he is flying a non detectable craft.
Nearly invisable to radar.


20 posted on 01/11/2013 10:01:27 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: TheThirdRuffian

TheThirdRuffian,
not meaning any offense but are you a pilot?
You EVER have ANY dealings with the F.A.A.?


21 posted on 01/11/2013 10:04:19 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: McGruff

Agreed. I was working at a nuke when 9/11 happened. There was strong concern the terrorists were going to try something with the nukes, and every report of any kind of unrecognized aircraft in immediate proximity to the plant was cause for great concern. I expect the no fly zone, if it in fact exists, was not communicated to the pilot due to some sort of human error, negligence, etc., which probably is why the authorities are backing off.


22 posted on 01/11/2013 10:05:15 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: PhiloBedo
"Yes. I read the article and the guy agreed not to take legal action against the Darlington Police, if the charges were dropped. BIG mistake. he should have sued them for several million, and an apology."

Couldn't that be construed as making an agreement under duress and somehow nullified? I would certainly test that theory...

23 posted on 01/11/2013 10:06:06 AM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: BuffaloJack

“A better knowledge of aviation issues among law enforcement officials may have produced a better result for Fleming. Griffin said she had to tell the officers on the scene to clear out the runway, and one officer talked about commandeering the airport. “He was running around, the one guy that was commandeering everything, saying, ‘We were going to shoot him down,’” she said.”

Me thinks it’s high time to start reeling in the gestapo.


24 posted on 01/11/2013 10:07:19 AM PST by bitterohiogunclinger (Proudly casting a heavy carbon footprint as I clean my guns ---)
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To: KeyLargo
"'e had transgressed the unwritten law."

"Just what was that law?"

"Well, 'e never did tell me what it was, but he gave me 'is word, an' that's good enough for me with ol' Dynsdale!"

25 posted on 01/11/2013 10:09:46 AM PST by SparkyBass
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To: McGruff

Why?
I fly ove one all the time.
To this point it is not illegal.
i do know they do not care for you to circle one at a low altitude.
And in this case I’d bet the farm it is because his craft is nearly invisible to radar.


26 posted on 01/11/2013 10:10:54 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: KeyLargo

Hasn’t this guy heard of NORDO? I always answer anonymous calls asking who is that circling and buzzing (fill in the blank) ./NOT!


27 posted on 01/11/2013 10:36:46 AM PST by wrench
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To: PhiloBedo

The FBI & Homeland Security Jack Booted Collectivists cn and should be sued for deliberate falsification of a Federal document - which is a FELONY!

Jail a few “Steroid Enhanced Jack Booted Thug” population and such abuse will become very rare.


28 posted on 01/11/2013 10:47:27 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."..)
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To: KeyLargo

One of the first things you learn when you study law is that a law is not a law until it is “promulgated”. In other words, there can be no “secret law”.

Beyond that, it is distressing that almost on a daily basis I read stories of gung-ho law enFORCEment, treating citizens who have broken no laws like they are felons ... and threatening to “shoot down” a glider ... insane.

I used to wonder how the Nazis found so many people willing to staff the camps and pack the trains ... every day here in AmeriKa 2013 I read stories that confirm the mindset of such people is still alive and well and more often than not uniformed and badged. Sickening.


29 posted on 01/11/2013 11:21:19 AM PST by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: onedoug

Why ping me? (check handle)


30 posted on 01/11/2013 11:29:24 AM PST by stickandrudder (Another Bitter-Clinger! God-Family-Tribe)
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To: KarlInOhio
Ignorance of the secret laws is no excuse. < /sarc>

Even when the law is not secret the vast majority of us remain ignorant of it. In the case of Obamacare even those who wrote it remain ignorant of it. It's kind of like the party where Hank Readan is made aware of how the 'law' works.

31 posted on 01/11/2013 11:39:32 AM PST by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again,")
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To: KeyLargo
The arrest report, however, paints a different picture

It always does. Often a display of unbridled fiction and questionable grammer.

32 posted on 01/11/2013 12:02:35 PM PST by tbpiper
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To: KarlInOhio

I was on double-secret probation at one time...


33 posted on 01/11/2013 12:10:22 PM PST by Delta Dawn
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To: KeyLargo

umm, not a secret. It’s a temporary flight restriction set up after 9/11. Can’t fly over nuke power, sporting events with more than 30,000 people or state department special airspace within 3nm or 3000’ agl. Not sure what that last one is, but these are old rules.


34 posted on 01/11/2013 12:44:39 PM PST by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
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To: Delta Dawn
I was on double-secret probation at one time...

Umm ...... you still are.

Oh crap, don't read this post.

35 posted on 01/11/2013 12:50:33 PM PST by Eaker (Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. — Robert A. Heinlein.)
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To: KeyLargo

“When his attorney returned and said the case would be dismissed if he agreed not to take any legal action against Darlington County law enforcement, he said, he reluctantly agreed.”

Gross violation of civil rights IMHO. I would seek charges for violation of civil rights under color of law.


36 posted on 01/11/2013 12:51:28 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: stickandrudder

With that handle I’d figure you’d want to read this.

Are you a glider buff? I’ve been up a few times and love it.


37 posted on 01/11/2013 1:51:44 PM PST by onedoug
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To: Joe Boucher

Yes and yes.

In fact, I just landed my Mooney about 5 minutes ago and am now waiting for Mrs. TTR to go skiing!

They need to be sued early and often.


38 posted on 01/11/2013 2:15:41 PM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
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To: TheThirdRuffian
Ignorance of the secret laws is no excuse. < /sarc>

We always liked our Company Commander's version: "Ignorance is no excuse for the law!"

39 posted on 01/11/2013 8:19:53 PM PST by 19th LA Inf
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To: TheThirdRuffian

Next door neighbor drives a Mooney all the time. In weather i’d Never fly my RV6A in.
Nice plane.


40 posted on 01/12/2013 4:54:14 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: KeyLargo

There is in fact a flight restriction that has been on file since 2010 and has been restated back in 2004. The AOPA should no better. As this FDC reads, it strongly advises pilots to avoid the airspace around nuclear power plants. It does not say prohibit. Law enforcement should have had the common sense to realize that a sailplane can’t just power its’ way out of the airspace and no arrest should have been made after interviewing the pilot.

FDC 4/0811 - ...SPECIAL NOTICE...
THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE.
IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE,
PILOTS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN
PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR
COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES
AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT CIRCLE AS TO LOITER
IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES. WIE UNTIL UFN. CREATED: 08 OCT
18:22 2004


41 posted on 01/12/2013 8:10:15 AM PST by BulletBobCo
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To: PhiloBedo

Should Pilots Fear the Police?
The saga of a South Carolina glider pilot arrested for overflying a nuclear powerplant recalls another episode in which police overreacted when a pilot did nothing wrong.
By Stephen Pope / Published: Jan 16, 2013

Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/fly-wire/should-pilots-fear-police?cmpid=enews011713&spPodID=030&spMailingID=14458565&spUserID=NTkyOTQ2MjI5OAS2&spJobID=210375206&spReportId=MjEwMzc1MjA2S0#1VOXCuHMRehhhOAm.99


42 posted on 01/19/2013 7:13:32 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Joe Boucher

CBP searches of private aircraft may be unconstitutional

General Travel
July 14, 2013
By: David W. Thornton

In the wake of a number recent seemingly random searches of general aviation aircraft by federal law enforcement agents, the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association demanded answers from Customs and Border Protection officials. In recent months, numerous searches of private aircraft have been reported by both the AOPA and the Atlantic. The AOPA filed numerous Freedom of Information Act requests on behalf of members who were stopped and searched by federal agents.

In one case, cited by both sources, Gabriel Silverstein, a pilot from New York, was stopped by CBP officers twice on a cross country business trip to Oklahoma in his Cirrus light airplane in May. A California Bonanza pilot, Larry Gaines, was surrounded by federal agents and questioned for two hours. Another particularly disturbing example occurred last year when Robin Fleming, a 70-year-old glider pilot was arrested for ostensibly breaching a “no fly zone” over a nuclear plant in Hartsville, S.C. even though there were no posted airspace restrictions.

In the July 12 edition of AOPA Live Ken Mead, AOPA’s general counsel and executive vice president discussed the response from Customs and Border Protection. “It’s essentially a kiss off letter from the law enforcement agency,” Mead said, “that says we’re police, we’re law enforcement, the stuff you asked for is law enforcement sensitive and besides, not to worry because we’re there to watch out for the civil rights of your member

http://www.examiner.com/article/cbp-searches-of-private-aircraft-may-be-unconstitutional


43 posted on 07/15/2013 9:13:09 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

In other words,
We’re the authorities and you have NO recourse.
Soooo, shut up and like it.


44 posted on 07/15/2013 9:26:39 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) ( Hey Rubio, eat pooh pal))
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