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New aircraft carrier next to Houses of Parliament shows giant scale of Navy's latest warship
Daily Mail ^ | 8th January 2013 | Harriet Arkell

Posted on 01/07/2013 6:36:13 PM PST by the scotsman

'These new computer-generated images put into context the huge scale of the largest warships ever built for the Royal Navy.

The Aircraft Carrier Alliance (ACA) has released a series of powerful posters illustrating the sheer size of the warships. The computer-generated images show the warships dwarfing some of the country's most recognisable landmarks.

Another notable poster is of the under-construction HMS Queen Elizabeth berthed alongside in Portsmouth, Hants.

The ACA is a consortium of defence companies behind the construction of Portsmouth's newest carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales. Ian Booth, programme director of the ACA, said: 'These posters depict the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers in front of the Houses of Parliament and in Portsmouth. 'They're stunning images and show that two really spectacular ships can be expected once construction is complete.'

A computer-generated image released last year showed how HMS Queen Elizabeth would look alongside at Portsmouth Naval Base. The images reveal the length of the ship is the equivalent of 28 London buses and is almost three times the size of Buckingham Palace. Around 80,000 tonnes of steel will be used for the two ships, three times that used in Wembley Stadium.

The carriers are 280m in length, 65,000 tonnes and capable of transporting 40 aircraft - twice the capacity of HMS Illustrious. They are being constructed at shipyards around the country and taken for assembly at Rosyth in Scotland.'

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: cvf; f35b; navair; royalnavy

1 posted on 01/07/2013 6:36:18 PM PST by the scotsman
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To: the scotsman

2 posted on 01/07/2013 6:38:27 PM PST by freedumb2003 (MOLON LABE)
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To: the scotsman

According to the article it will be 280m long. The Reagan is 320m long. The Enterprise is/was 342m.


3 posted on 01/07/2013 6:40:59 PM PST by freedumb2003 (MOLON LABE)
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To: freedumb2003

Nice canoe!
Lot smaller than the Enterprise!
Hope it doesn’t have electrical problems like my ol MGB!


4 posted on 01/07/2013 6:41:10 PM PST by 9422WMR (Life is not fair, just deal with it)
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To: freedumb2003

If you’re going to take the tour, I think the boat with the glass ceiling would be better to see all the sights like the Taj Mahal or something.


5 posted on 01/07/2013 6:47:04 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: the scotsman

Is Cameron gonna send it to the Falklands ?


6 posted on 01/07/2013 6:49:17 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: the scotsman

This is great, but I hope that it isn’t the Islamic Republic of Great Britain by the time her service life is through.


7 posted on 01/07/2013 6:50:30 PM PST by LSUfan
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To: the scotsman

Training wheels in the aft bridge?


8 posted on 01/07/2013 6:51:43 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: the scotsman

I think they HAD to build bigger carriers. The ones they have are made for VTOL planes (Harriers) and they retired them. I assumed they’ve learned their lesson and designed catapult and arresting gear into the flight deck for conventional Naval A/C.


9 posted on 01/07/2013 7:01:18 PM PST by ZOOKER ( Exploring the fine line between cynicism and outright depression)
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Scoop foredeck for VTOL’s?


10 posted on 01/07/2013 7:01:58 PM PST by llevrok (ObamaLand - Where young people go to retire.)
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To: the scotsman
God help them if they still use Lucas Electrics.........Joe Lucas says, "Don't go out after dark".

Old Brit car and bike humor. Corollary was a joke about why Brits drink warm beer.

Seriously, I bet these ships will be built top notch. Ship building is in their genes. Would love to tour one, but never happen out here on an island.

11 posted on 01/07/2013 7:02:10 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: freedumb2003
A shallow draft carrier. Will wonders never cease.

/johnny

12 posted on 01/07/2013 7:14:13 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: doorgunner69
Top notch namesakes.... Prince of Wales Queen Elizabeth
13 posted on 01/07/2013 7:14:27 PM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: the scotsman

... is it as big as the mosque in the background?


14 posted on 01/07/2013 7:16:00 PM PST by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: himno hero

What mosque?.

The building on the far left with the light coloured roof is a Whitehall building.


15 posted on 01/07/2013 7:24:09 PM PST by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

Are those not two white minarets exposed to the left of the top of the tower?


16 posted on 01/07/2013 7:33:48 PM PST by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: himno hero

No, those are the 2 of the four chimneys of Battersea Power Station.


17 posted on 01/07/2013 7:56:50 PM PST by antihannityguy (When they come for your guns give them the ammo first)
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To: henkster
For such a miniscule island country with no local resources, the British did some astounding things.

My half Irish/half French Canadian ancestry has conflicts with that, but I do have immense respect for them. They kicked ass in their day with precious little to back them up.

18 posted on 01/07/2013 8:54:36 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: freedumb2003

918 feet as compared to CVN-77 (George H.W. Bush) at 1092 ft.

Nifty looking carrier that is, but still smaller than US Carriers.


19 posted on 01/07/2013 9:29:09 PM PST by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: llevrok
Scoop foredeck for VTOL’s?

No. The initial plans were for the Queen Elizabeth class carriers to use STOVL aircraft (the F35B), with the capability of later upgrade to F35C or similar aircraft, but with changes to the F35 program making the delivery of F35Bs far less likely, it was decided to go straight to the later configuration. The 'skijump' has been retained because it is still useful for non-STOVL aircraft - even with a catapult assisted launch, that up angle increases the weight you can launch over a particular distance.

And yes, the QE class carriers will be smaller than US carriers, but will be larger than anything anybody else in the world has. As it is unlikely the UK will be going to war with the US in the near future, they are big enough.

(The next generation French carrier may also wind up slightly larger than the Queen Elizabeth class, but, again, war with France seems unlikely).

20 posted on 01/07/2013 9:45:41 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: the scotsman

In this day and age of ever-faster and smarter missile technology, carriers are becoming obsolete. Sure, we can roll one up on a small country without the resources to give us a run for our money, but the Russians and Chinese have developed special missiles which have a high probability of destroying or disabling a carrier. If these missiles are fire in volleys, their probabilities go way up. Sure we have some missile defenses, but you really only have to get lucky once with the hypersonic missiles they are working on that are travelling at speets approaching mach 10 and upwards. A simple, non-explosive warhead travelling at that speed would be like being struck by a comet.
There also is the growing militarization of space, which has the usual players, namely Russia, and to a lesser degree, China. Why each country would not be working on their own version of Rods from God would defy common sense. Imagine even a crowbar moving at several miles per second making impact.


21 posted on 01/08/2013 1:40:48 AM PST by krogers58
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To: 9422WMR
Hope it doesn’t have electrical problems like my ol MGB!

I wonder if it has dual SU downdraft carbs.

22 posted on 01/08/2013 3:01:40 AM PST by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: the scotsman

Madness.

(I say that on every UK post)


23 posted on 01/08/2013 4:44:27 AM PST by BobL
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To: the scotsman

I think the Brits invented the angle flight deck. Ironic it lacks that...


24 posted on 01/08/2013 4:56:32 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: krogers58

So how long were you in the Navy?


25 posted on 01/08/2013 5:00:18 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: doorgunner69

The Brits had balls. Too bad all the good ones were killed at the Somme. And the real men in France died at Verdun, same for the Germans at Stalingrad.


26 posted on 01/08/2013 7:56:47 AM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: 9422WMR

With a little luck Lucas CAV won’t be doing the electrical work on the CV.


27 posted on 01/08/2013 7:58:57 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: the scotsman

The next war will start with large missiles and torpedoes hitting these targets.


28 posted on 01/08/2013 8:01:35 AM PST by bmwcyle (We have gone over the cliff and we are about to hit the bottom)
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To: freedumb2003

It’s a good lookin’ ship.


29 posted on 01/08/2013 8:04:13 AM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: ZOOKER
The ones they have are made for VTOL(sic) planes

VSTOL

I assumed they’ve learned their lesson and designed catapult and arresting gear into the flight deck for conventional Naval A/C.

Nope. Too expensive and the UK has reversed course again and will be purchasing the F-35B as originally planned.

30 posted on 01/08/2013 9:37:21 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: naturalman1975
No.

Yes.

31 posted on 01/08/2013 9:41:16 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: central_va

28 years


32 posted on 01/08/2013 11:11:19 AM PST by krogers58
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To: krogers58; central_va

The correct reply is, “All me bloomin’ life!” shipmate. Unless, of course you were an officer, then the correct reply is, “Until my wife made me quit.”


33 posted on 01/08/2013 11:19:07 AM PST by wxgesr (I want to be the first person to surf on another planet.)
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To: the scotsman; Revolting cat!; Slings and Arrows
But boats are outmoded. Jean F'in Kerry sez so!


34 posted on 01/08/2013 3:15:56 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Still no according to the people I know who are involved in this.

The Defence Secretary does want to go back to the F-35B idea and has announced that, but it’s contingent on the F-35B being proven viable by sometime later this year and that is looking unlikely. The final decision on whether to go CATOBAR with the F-35C or stick with the F-35B has to be made in the second half of this year. The F-35C will be the decision unless the F-35B reaches a particular set of criteria by then, and that is doubtful - the USMC (who also want the F-35B) expect that stage to be reached in 2014 or 2015. That’s too late for the British - they need to make the final decision this year. Personally, I think the Defence Secretary’s announcement was primarily intended to both put pressure on Lockheed Martin to speed things up, while simultaneously saying that if it would help speed things up, they could be confident Britain would go with that choice. But it has to happen by the time they reach the stage of building the flight deck on the first carrier, or they will have to go with CATOBAR and conventional take off.

None of this, naturally, is restricted information or I wouldn’t be discussing it. But I’m confident of what I’m saying. The F-35B is officially Britain’s current choice - but it will only remain so if Lockheed Martin reach certain stages earlier than expected.


35 posted on 01/08/2013 3:16:09 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: the scotsman

How’d make it past the Wibbly Wobbly Bridge? ;O)


36 posted on 01/08/2013 3:24:43 PM PST by Mashood
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To: naturalman1975
Just checked something after rereading what I wrote - the 'drop dead' date is actually the date for building the flight deck on the second carrier, not the first. That's due to cost considerations. But it's still a decision that has to be taken this year. The bottom line is that Britain would prefer the F-35B if they can be sure it's going to be available. But if they go with the STOVL option and the F-35B never becomes viable, they will be in deep trouble with no alternatives. And the way the dates are stacking up does not look good for being able to take that risk.
37 posted on 01/08/2013 3:25:55 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: antihannityguy
...Battersea Power Station.

There should be a giant pig floating over it...
38 posted on 01/08/2013 9:37:26 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: naturalman1975
The Defence Secretary does want to go back to the F-35B idea and has announced that, but it’s contingent on the F-35B being proven viable by sometime later this year and that is looking unlikely. The final decision on whether to go CATOBAR with the F-35C or stick with the F-35B has to be made in the second half of this year.

Either way, the F-35 is a mouse made to government specifications:

]

It is basically a:

Too bad, it was a good idea.

39 posted on 01/09/2013 5:36:31 AM PST by freedumb2003 (MOLON LABE)
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To: naturalman1975
According to the people that I know that are involved, the decision for the UK to go ahead with the B is a done deal. The only thing that remains is how many of the STOVL variant will be purchased.

EMALs for the CVFs has been scrapped. The UK cannot afford $3.2 billion to outfit two boats with catapults and arresting gear. There will not be a catapult of any type installed.

There are a lot of people who were confident that the F-35B would never make it off of Gates' probation, including Gates. They were wrong as well. Sea trials on the Wasp in October of 2011 proved that. As for viability of the B, you might want to talk to the folks in Yuma at VMFA-121, which stood up on 20 November 2012 and will have its full complement of aircraft by the end of 2013.

40 posted on 01/09/2013 10:43:35 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: freedumb2003

How much verifiable time have you logged in any F-35 variant/simulator?


41 posted on 01/09/2013 10:48:06 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
How much verifiable time have you logged in any F-35 variant/simulator?

Your question is a Non sequitur.

The problem with the F-35 isn't its conceptual design. It is all the added baggage the politicians affixed to it. In their desire to make it work for all circumstances, it works for very few.

Other than H2H (we may never know that), the F-16 can fulfill all the mission requirements the Flying Anvil F-35 at 1/4 the price. The Navy (rightly) is hesitating on the F-35 since the F-18 (the next best MRF) can also fulfill the missions parameters

It saddens me b/c I loved the idea of the F-35. A homogeneous next-generation MRF platform with interchangeable parts made a lot of sense. Then the ballast-attachers got involved and killed it.

The F-15, F-16 and F-18 will continue to rule the skies (another sadness: F-22) for at least another generation.

42 posted on 01/09/2013 12:48:54 PM PST by freedumb2003 (MOLON LABE)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
According to the people that I know that are involved, the decision for the UK to go ahead with the B is a done deal. The only thing that remains is how many of the STOVL variant will be purchased.

Well, we're obviously talking to different people. I don't know who you are talking to, but I do know the people I am talking to know their stuff and they've been doing this for decades - and I used to do with them in some cases. They could be wrong, but time will tell.

EMALs for the CVFs has been scrapped. The UK cannot afford $3.2 billion to outfit two boats with catapults and arresting gear. There will not be a catapult of any type installed.

Cost is the reason why the 'drop dead' date is on the second carrier - it's already been decided the first will not go with the CATOBAR design at least initially as it would waste money that has already been spent. If needed, it could eventually be retrofitted, but, yes, that all costs money and money is tight. What Britain can and can't afford though, to an extent comes down to need. If the only way they can have carrier capability requires a couple of billion pounds and they want that capability, the money will be found. It'll blow budgets and nobody wants it to happen, but it will be found. Building carriers that don't have planes that can fly off them wastes every penny spent on the carriers. That's worse than finding the extra money if needed.

There are a lot of people who were confident that the F-35B would never make it off of Gates' probation, including Gates. They were wrong as well. Sea trials on the Wasp in October of 2011 proved that. As for viability of the B, you might want to talk to the folks in Yuma at VMFA-121, which stood up on 20 November 2012 and will have its full complement of aircraft by the end of 2013.

Do I believe the F-35B will eventually be a fully viable aircraft? Yes, I do. So do my friends. But the problem is when it will happen. Decisions have to be made at certain points in the Carrier project and those decisions have to be based on the guaranteed (not theoretical but guaranteed) capabilities of the aircraft. The dates aren't working at the moment.

Having got rid of the Harriers, there's no fall back available. Unless there is a 100% guarantee the F35-B will meet requirements at the decision date, the decision has to be different. A 100% guarantee, at the moment, is considered to mean, it has met the requirements by that date. There is some wriggle room on that but how much is a big question.

There are no 'done deals' on this. A year ago, it was a 'done deal' that it would be the F35-C. To begin with, it was a 'done deal' that it would be the F3-B. At the moment, officially the F35-B is the choice, but that can be changed by a decision from the Defence Secretary. The people I am talking to are people who have to plan based on what they believe Britain's defence needs will be, and ensuring a credible carrier force as soon as they can get it. They look ahead, beyond what is being said now, to what they believe will be being said in the future.

When I joined the RAN, Australia was meant to have a carrier forever. I spent much of 1981 learning to be a carrier sailor, because it was the official position of Australian governments that we would have carrier capability for decades to come and all the details had been worked out. By the middle of 1982, we didn't have any carrier capability at all, and we still don't. What politicians have decided today, doesn't really mean much to me.

But all I'm reporting is what I believe to be true, based on what people who normally know what's going on in my experience, believe to be true. They could be wrong and I could be wrong. Maybe you've got better sources. The proof in the pudding will be what is sailing in 2020 and what is flying off them. I just hope it's something sailing with something flying - not carriers that can't find suitable aircraft. I'd be perfectly happy with the RN going with the F-35B (partly because the only hope Australia has of getting any sort of carrier capability in the next two decades is the success of the F-35B flying off the Canberras - again, not officially an option at the moment, but...

43 posted on 01/09/2013 4:40:27 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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