I don't think anyone will deny that parents who aren't engaged with their children's education are hurting their children. In fact, when you mention this, you're actually making a large part of wintertime's argument for her.
She has repeatedly said that it is PARENTS who make the difference, usually, in their children's lives. She has said repeatedly that whatever success children enjoy in traditional schools is strongly tied to the schooling that happens in the HOME.
And thus, she concludes (not completely wrongly) that folks might as well just homeschool, since the traditional school isn't the entity actually accomplishing education.
The flip side to that, the point you think you're making (but which is already implied in wintertime's argument), is that poor parents make for poor educational outcomes. Of course!
But a question you're not answering is, well, if poor parenting results in poor outcomes, whether through homeschooling or through traditional schools, and good parenting results in good outcomes, whether through homeschooling or through traditional schools, why do we need outlandishly-expensive, useless, ineffective public schools that burden the average taxpayer tremendously?
I appreciate your taking wintertime's side of the argument. Maybe we CAN all get along. ;-)
That said, I've seen more than one family do a great job homeschooling and then see the local public school undo all the good they accomplish.
My neighbor's oldest son went to our renowned elementary school till about 4th grade. Bright kid, but very physical, very energetic, needed to move around a lot. He could play a mean game of chess (I was chess coach of the homeschool chess club, and for the two years that the family homeschooled, he came to chess club weekly. Among a group of very smart kids, he quickly rose to the top.)
Anyway, by the end of 4th grade, our “high-quality” local elementary school had labeled him learning disabled, intellectually a bit slow, and ADHD. Drugs and all.
This public school thing wasn't working so well. So, mom, who worked out of her house, brought him home for two years. She came to us for advice on homeschooling, and she generally chose a pretty good homeschooling path. She used a reputable “curriculum in a box,” and was diligent. I felt sad for her when she told me of her son's troubles, ending it by saying, “We failed our elementary school.” No, they didn't. The public school failed her bright, sharp, fun-loving son. But she couldn't throw off her life-long indoctrination about public schools and see the thing as it really is.
Anyway, after two years at home, the young fellow went from being roughly a year behind in most subjects to about a year ahead. Except in math, where, by the end of 6th grade, he was doing basic algebra. Well, heck, he's a smart kid, why shouldn't he have been that far advanced?
Well, anyway, problem fixed, mom and dad decided to put him back into public school - middle school, by this point. The school ignored the advances he'd made in two years of homeschooling, and placed him academically according to where he was when he left the school system after 4th grade.
What a travesty.
And this is in the state of Maryland, which year in and year out has highly-ranked public schools, including a No. 1 rank in the last few years, in one of the top county school systems in the state. At schools which are considered models in the county's public school system. Highly-rated schools in a highly-rated county system in one of the top-ranked states in the country.
And they can't figure out how to decently educate a bright, energetic, pleasant, well-behaved but active young man.
Doctors go by the motto of, “First, do no harm.”
Educrats should at least try to live by the same philosophy.
He struggled through middle school and the first year of high school. He got pretty messed up in those three years. They finally sent him off to an expensive boarding school that specialized in fixing kids broken by crappy schools, he graduated high school and went off to college.
The lesson of all this is that poor parenting almost always leads to poor educational outcomes, whether privately-schooled, publicly-schooled or homeschooled. But good parenting nearly always leads to excellent outcomes in homeschooling, usually leads to good outcomes in good private schools, and, well, in public schools, it's a bit of a crapshoot.
I've never personally seen good, diligent homeschoolers fail, but I could tell you multiple stories like this one where good parents saw their kids fail to thrive in even “good” public schools.
Unlike others, I don't say that public schools always fail, or that we should immediately close them all down, or that no one gets educated in them, or that there aren't any public schools that are genuinely good and effective academically. My son goes to college with lots of kids from top-tier public schools, and they're all damned smart and damned successful, academically.
But public schools are generally suboptimal in obtaining a good education. Some kids do very well, perhaps even achieving their potential, more do okay, and unfortunately, a large minority get cheated out of an education. Much of this is due to the quality of parenting, especially when students are successful. Much of it is due to the schools, themselves, especially when students fail.
Nearly all children of poor parents will fail educationally, no matter the school choice. Parents are the first and primary teachers of their children. Parental involvement is the first and most important attribute of a successful educational outcome. But public schools often stymie and hinder good educational outcomes for children even of good, decent and diligent parents.
sitetest
Your question is a loaded one, but I will answer it. Just as I have answered a number of times on previous threads. 1) Not every parent is capable of homeschooling, either for financial, physical. or mental limitations. I taught at an inner city school for 2 years. 6 classes 20 weeks semesters roughly 20 students per class. Roughly 480 students in 2 years time. Only 8 of them did not come from single parent homes. Over 60 of them were being raised by Aunts and grandparents. All of them had to work to make ends meet.
2)Special needs children. There is a myth going around that it costs an average of $X to educate a child. The truth is that quite a bit of the cost goes to special needs children (No I am not complaining about Special needs children I am simply stating a fact) Schools are able to meet the needs of these children because we have been able to focus these services into one place. With that comes quite a bit of reporting that has to go to the state and federal agencies.
3) Selfish parents. Let me give you an example I administrate the "Teacher Assistance Team." We meet at the request of either a parent, Guidance counselor, or teacher, for students that are not having sucess in the class room. We had a parent that swore up and down that her child had a mental disability and could not function in a normal class room setting. She was also saying this in front of and directly tot he child. She kept haranguing the principal and his teachers. The Principal asked me to do the two required random observations on the boy. After the second one I met with him in private and told him that I did not note anything that caused me to believe that he was a Special needs student.
Sadly in order to placate this mother we had to send him for for evaluation. Mental, Physical, Social, and a full homes study. This cost just over %5,000. The finding was that the kids was perfectly normal. This money could have been better spent on a child with genuine needs.
One other thing you need to be aware of is that I fully support Homeschooling, Private, Parochial, Charter schools and vouchers. I believe that the competition would do every one good. I am also confident in my teaching abilities. I can say with our bragging that you won't find a batter cabinetry teacher in the entire valley and I am every bit as good a drafting teacher as the other 4 teachers in the valley.
Now I know that it gets the homeschooling extremists frothing at the mouth when I offer to give them a list of students that they can take and use to prove their theories on, but I only do it because it really gets them to show their true colors.