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To: fireforeffect

I’m not sure it’s reasonable with most suicides to hold commanders responsible. You can’t catch every signal, and you can’t watch everyone 24/7. There are some where signs and symptoms were so pronounced, and the command response so ignoring of what was taking place that you should hold a psych autopsy and then send letters to commander/nco files. I think that’s the exception rather than the rule, though.

I am interested in Guerra’s(sp) ideas, so if you find a link to them, please let me know. Once upon a time, I taught suicide prevention on a regional basis for the Army, but it was prior to Iraq/Afghanistan. I had a few months after 9/11 before I retired. (My posting from that time on FR probably can still be accessed.)

In any case, I’m coming down on the side of deployment tempo as a major culprit until I read something contrary. I think those periods of time when troops go from mind-blowing danger, back to near total safety, back to danger, back to safety mess with people’s heads and both lead them to think of death to much and of their own death and chance of buying it.

Then there are the other losses associated with year-long absences — broken marriages, relationships, financial opportunities,etc. Also, there are the images of horrifying deaths and wounds that accumulate in troops’ memories, and you have significant obstacles that they must deal with.

Couple that with the danger/safety cycle, and you have people whose heads have really been screwed with.

The last war we fought correctly was WWII. People were brought into service for the duration. It’s actually far more merciful to have the troops on active duty until the war is finished than to bring them in, take them out, bring them in, take them out.

Additionally, it forces the nation to either fight the war or get out.


106 posted on 11/20/2012 1:33:08 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
My bad, not Guerra, Grossman. Both G's, right? Guerra wrote an excellent little book on counterinsurgency. It was the basis for COIN. For some reason I always mix the two up.

http://www.amazon.com/On-Killing-Psychological-Learning-Society/dp/0316040932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353521317&sr=8-1&keywords=on+killing+by+dave+grossman

Days in combat is a factor of PTSD, as Grossman covers in his books.

Watching the troops 24/7 is part of the problem. The troops feel that they are watched because they did something wrong. The current system of “suicide prevention” reinforces the “you have been a bad boy” mental state of the soldiers. Depressing the troops with endless and repeated suicide prevention training is part of the problem too.

BTW: We need to separate the non-combat related suicides from the combat related. Including people who have made poor life choices (cheating on their spouse, stealing, etc) with those who are honorably injured in the war zone is just wrong.

You really need to read Grossman, he basically agrees with your theory. Where he, and I (if I remember the book correctly), disagree with you is on the danger/safety cycle. It is duration in combat (or stress) that hurts. Time away from stress can lower, but not empty, your stress tank.

One thing Grossman does not address is Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), which is beginning to appear to be a major factor in PTSD.

BTW2: On Killing is basically a revised version of On Combat. On Combat was written with the law enforcement community as an audience. On Killing was written for the military.

130 posted on 11/21/2012 10:56:49 AM PST by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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