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Election 2012 Marks the End of Evangelical Dominance in Politics
The Atlantic ^ | 11/13/2012 | Jonathan Merritt

Posted on 11/16/2012 4:57:28 AM PST by darrellmaurina

Ever since Ronald Reagan was elected president in 1980, evangelicals have been a powerful political force. Jerry Falwell and his Moral Majority organization were credited in part with Reagan's election, having registered millions of evangelicals to vote. Their influence would only grow over the next 25 years: Evangelicals were instrumental in Reagan's reelection, the Republican Revolution of 1994, and both of George W. Bush's victories. But on November 6, 2012, their reign came to an end.

"I think this [election] was an evangelical disaster," Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, told NPR. He's right, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

The late Falwell's Liberty University gave former governor Mitt Romney its keynote spot at its 2012 commencement and backed off previous language calling Mormonism a "cult." Billy Graham uncharacteristically threw his support behind the Republican candidate, and his evangelistic association bought full-page newspaper ads all but endorsing Romney. Ralph Reed's Faith and Freedom Coalition spent tens of millions in battleground states to get out the religious vote.

As a result, 79 percent of white evangelicals voted for Romney on Tuesday. That's the same percentage that Bush received in 2004, and more than Senator John McCain received in 2008. The evangelical vote was 27 percent of the overall electorate -- the highest it's ever been for an election.

Their support wasn't enough. Not only did Obama win soundly, but four states voted to allow same-sex marriage.

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: obama; romney; santorum
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 11/16/2012 4:57:36 AM PST by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina

Maybe we need better candidates. I don’t know any “evangelicals” who wanted Romney to be the nominee.


2 posted on 11/16/2012 5:03:10 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: darrellmaurina

So much for the rumor grist that millions of evangelicals stayed home.


3 posted on 11/16/2012 5:04:03 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Exactly, some people really don’t think obama is that bad and they hate mormons.


4 posted on 11/16/2012 5:06:26 AM PST by Tea American Party Patriot
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To: wagglebee; little jeremiah; Antoninus; cripplecreek; Lazlo in PA; napscoordinator; ...
Let's hope this obituary for Christian conservatives in politics, like many others before it, is a premature case of “dancing on the grave.”

However, the author has some valid points, key among them being the way in which too many Christian conservatives decided to downplay the seriousness of Mitt Romney's theological aberrations, and the fact that he hasn't even been faithful to his own Mormon conservative values on issues like abortion and gay marriage.

If Christian conservatives keep doing things like that, we deserve what we get.

The fact is that Mitt Romney was not a Christian conservative, wasn't a socially conservative ally of Christian conservatives, and was a terrible choice for the Republican Party. I understand the need for compromise and coalitions in politics, but the result this year was Republicans nominated a man whose main reason for supporting a “pro-choice” position on abortion, and then backing off from it, seems to have been poll data.

I believe the Mormon Church dodged a major bullet this month, and if Mitt Romney had been elected, he would have become the Mormon version of the Kennedy family, injecting liberalism into a prominent position in his church while giving the church a respectability it, like the Catholics before Kennedy, had sought for decades before the election.

I am no Mormon, but if I were a Mormon, I would be a strong opponent of the Mitt Romney-Harry Reid wing of the LDS, and be doing whatever I could to fight it.

5 posted on 11/16/2012 5:08:50 AM PST by darrellmaurina
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To: ilovesarah2012

Maybe we need better citizens to elect men and women of honor and integrity.

LLS


6 posted on 11/16/2012 5:11:28 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (I AM JOHN GALT)
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To: darrellmaurina

“decided to downplay the seriousness of Mitt Romney’s theological aberrations, and the fact that he hasn’t even been faithful to his own Mormon conservative values on issues like abortion and gay marriage.”

Look at black Christians who overlooked Obama’s views on abortion and homosexual “marriage” and voted for him because of his perceived skin color. We all know if Obama were white, he never would have been elected. Never!


7 posted on 11/16/2012 5:13:04 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: darrellmaurina
"I think this [election] was an evangelical disaster," Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, told NPR. He's right, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

Mr. Mohler, what did God tell Gideon? Judges 7:2 And the LORD said unto Gideon, "The People that are with thee are too many for Me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against Me, saying, Mine own hand hath 'saved' me.'

I take this election as God sifting out more chaff from His wheat. I think Americans are going to have to have their noses rubbed into 'social justice' religious/politics, to figure out God is against the redistribution of wealth. Yes things are going to get harder and more worldly, but, God said I will never leave you nor forsake you, IF!

8 posted on 11/16/2012 5:14:10 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: wagglebee; little jeremiah; Antoninus; cripplecreek; Lazlo in PA; napscoordinator; Diamond; ...
One more thing — maybe this development will finally stop the arguments from the economic conservatives that social conservatives need to shut up and not push for our issues because “it's not the right time.”

If we're ever going to reach Hispanic Roman Catholics, it's going to be over social issues like abortion.

Social issues are a major part of what led white evangelicals out of the Democratic Party and into the Republican Party. Social issues are a major part of what led ethnic Catholic blue collar workers in Northern industrial cities to become “Reagan Democrats.”

Frankly, if we really have become a country of “takers” rather than “makers,” we need to appeal to the votes of people who are willing to consider something else to be more important than their pocketbooks.

Religious values have proven their ability to do that in the past.

Next time, let's try to get a candidate who actually believes the religious values he claims to affirm.

9 posted on 11/16/2012 5:18:52 AM PST by darrellmaurina
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To: LibLieSlayer

Unfortunately we are stuck with the “citizens” we have. If you can think of how we can get better ones, I’m listening.


10 posted on 11/16/2012 5:25:09 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: darrellmaurina

“Not only did Obama win soundly, but four states voted to allow same-sex marriage”

ZERO won because hispanics are totally ignorant of their Catholic faith and most would rather have free government handouts than work for a living. That, combined with mass voter fraud, elected the worst president in American history to a second term. Romney said he would find jobs for American, ZERO said more handouts. Free stuff wins every time.


11 posted on 11/16/2012 5:29:30 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet; wagglebee; little jeremiah; AmericanInTokyo; Lazlo in PA; cripplecreek; Antoninus; ...
11 posted on Fri Nov 16 2012 07:29:30 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time) by NKP_Vet: “ZERO won because hispanics are totally ignorant of their Catholic faith and most would rather have free government handouts than work for a living. That, combined with mass voter fraud, elected the worst president in American history to a second term. Romney said he would find jobs for American, ZERO said more handouts. Free stuff wins every time.”

I think we agree.

Very similar things could have been said about Southern rural whites from the Great Depression until at least the 1970s and probably well into the 1980s. The old Democratic Party coalition depended on the ability of people like LBJ to give poor rural whites lots of “free stuff” to buy their votes.

The Democratic coalition broke down for many reasons, but social conservatives were a major part of that breakdown.

I believe the same thing can be done with Hispanics. The modern Republican Party is not anti-Catholic, and there are lots of conservative Catholics who are well-positioned to reach out to their socially conservative Hispanic Catholic fellow believers.

While it will be much harder, as more blacks become businessmen, it may be possible to split off enough black voters to deny Democrats a majority in close races. Conservative black pastors fighting homosexuality need to be encouraged as much as possible in that regard. The way in which Democrats fight tooth-and-nail against people like Congressman West show how concerned Democrats are that some prominent conservative black leaders will gain traction. If they're worried as Democrats, we should view that as a sign of their weakness and our opportunity. But short term, we've got a lot better opportunity with Catholic Hispanics and with the growing population of evangelical and charismatic Hispanics.

12 posted on 11/16/2012 5:40:46 AM PST by darrellmaurina
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To: ilovesarah2012
I don’t know any “evangelicals” who wanted Romney to be the nominee.

Me either.

Those numbers are based on exit polling. Has everyone forgotten the exit polls of 2004? Everybody voted for president Kerry according to those polls.

13 posted on 11/16/2012 6:01:47 AM PST by Holly_P
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To: NKP_Vet
...hispanics are totally ignorant of their Catholic faith...

Not much of a faith, then.

14 posted on 11/16/2012 6:08:06 AM PST by EricT. (The GOP's sole purpose is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party.)
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To: darrellmaurina
If we're ever going to reach Hispanic Roman Catholics, it's going to be over social issues like abortion.

The odd comments of many bishops to the contrary notwithstanding, socialism, homosexuality, and abortion are anathema to the Catholic faith. Conservatives in general, and particularly Protestant conservatives, must learn to make the case that voting for conservative candidates and conservative issues is the authentically Catholic thing to do.

15 posted on 11/16/2012 6:15:48 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: darrellmaurina

Freeloaders, breast implants and condoms are the top dog now.


16 posted on 11/16/2012 6:26:11 AM PST by FlingWingFlyer (We need Comprehensive Election Reform, NOW!)
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To: darrellmaurina
The last time the Republicans won 40% of that vote was in 1956, before the massive immigration wave and when the Eisenhower Administration rigorously enforced immigration laws. The Mexican-American population was either descended from pre-U.S. settlers in the Southwest or 1910s-1920s refugees from the Mexican Civil War and its aftermath. They had been in the country for at least a generation and in some cases, notably faithful Catholics who fled during the Cristeros War, were politically conservative. Never since that time have Republicans won more than a third of that vote nationally.

The loss of white Southerners from the Democrat coalition was due to three factors: the increasing urbanization and prosperity of the South after World War II; the support the Democrats outside the South gave to affirmative action and school busing; and the appeasement of Communists and (after 1979) Muslim extremists by Johnson and Carter. With middle class incomes and greater creature comforts, white Southerners had less need for government cheese. Unless Hispanic-Americans prosper economically as white Southerners did, or can be set against black Americans politically, a similar turning is unlikely. With the Democrats running the White House and Senate for another four years, the chances for a rising economic tide lifting all boats are not promising.

Even prosperity is no assurance that members of particular ethnic groups will vote in their own economic self-interest. A case in point is the Jewish voters, of whom it is said that they earn like Episcopalians but vote like Puerto Ricans. Even with Romney being a strong friend of Israel and Obama questionable at best on this matter, almost 70% of Jewish voters supported the Democrat. Another example is the Asian vote. The increase in Asian-Americans post-1965 parallels that of Hispanics, although the former group's percentage is smaller relative to the overall population. Asians are far more likely to enter the professions and own businesses than Hispanics and the income levels of many Asian ethnic groups exceed the average for whites. Yet, like the Hispanics and the Jews, about 70% voted for Obama.

Some 85% of Muslim voters supported Obama, only a slight drop from the 89% he garnered four years ago.

It appears that white Protestant, Catholic, and Mormon voters represent the only base conservatives and Republicans have, and a shrinking one due to low white birth rates, higher minority birth rates, legal and illegal immigration, and the conversion of people from white Christian backgrounds to secular humanism, agnosticism, and atheism. At best, this country is on its way to becoming a European style social democracy; at worst, a cauldron like South Africa or Zimbabwe, where the formerly dominant whites are persecuted and killed.

17 posted on 11/16/2012 6:51:43 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: darrellmaurina

When the GOPe figures out they can get more votes when voters choose “who you are” instead of “who you are not”, they may win another election. I am not anticipating that ever happening.

Muslim or Mormon
Democrat or Former Democrat
Federal Mandated Healthcare or State Mandated Healthcare

See anything wrong with the choices we had?

Got me excited/s


18 posted on 11/16/2012 7:01:53 AM PST by nomobs
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To: ilovesarah2012
Get involved in your local school district. Pressure for changes in curriculum. By example and word, teach the laws of GOD to man. There is a good start.

LLS

19 posted on 11/16/2012 7:44:12 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (I AM JOHN GALT)
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To: LibLieSlayer

I attended a Christian college back in the early 70s and as part of our community service, we went to the local elementary school every week and did a Bible lesson. The teachers loved it because they got a break and the kids loved it. It was a public school and no one complained. Can you imagine that being allowed these days?


20 posted on 11/16/2012 7:50:30 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

Only in certain parts of the country.

LLS


21 posted on 11/16/2012 8:12:51 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (I AM JOHN GALT)
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To: Tea American Party Patriot
Exactly, some people really don’t think obama is that bad and they hate mormons.

Evangelicals voted for Romney by 79%, no one else came close to that level of support.

So I hope you weren't talking about Evangelicals, now the 'non-affiliated with a religion' voted for Romney by 26%, that must be who you mean.

22 posted on 11/16/2012 10:56:17 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: NKP_Vet
ZERO won because hispanics are totally ignorant of their Catholic faith and most would rather have free government handouts than work for a living.

Catholic Hispanics vote democrat, as Catholics always have, Hispanic Protestants are closer to voting like Protestants always have, and are in play, for instance voting republican by 56% in 2004, and 48% in 2008.

23 posted on 11/16/2012 11:02:59 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: darrellmaurina
"decided to downplay the seriousness of Mitt Romney's theological aberrations, and the fact that he hasn't even been faithful to his own Mormon conservative values on issues like abortion and gay marriage."-"I am no Mormon, but if I were a Mormon, I would be a strong opponent of the Mitt Romney-Harry Reid wing of the LDS, and be doing whatever I could to fight it."

That is way off base, the average Mormon does not rise up to the level of devoted faith, and truth to doctrine, that Temple Mormons, Bishop Romney and Harry Reid do, they are examined, and certified in the devoutness, and are even issued IDs proving that.

Bishop Romney received the personal permission of his Holy Prophet to run for president, and he had the full support of the Quorum of 70, and many thought him the fulfillment of prophecy.

Governor Romney's position within the religion is such, that Mitt himself was personally excommunicating Mormons of lessor devotion, before he requested permission to leave those duties, and run for political office.

24 posted on 11/16/2012 11:22:43 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12

“Catholic Hispanics vote democrat, as Catholics always have, Hispanic Protestants are closer to voting like Protestants always have”

Now what percentage of hispanics do you think are protestant? 1 or 2%? The vast majority identify themselves as Catholic, even though they vote like their face is black instead of brown. White (working) Catholics, who attend Mass on a regular basis and try to live their life according to the teachings of the Catholic Church, vote for the most conservative candidate and that candidate is not a democrat. Just like any other faith, if you are a regular church goer and live your faith, the republicans can count on your vote. Makes no difference what demonination. The party of death gets the hypocrite vote.


25 posted on 11/16/2012 12:26:26 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Protestants are about 31% of the Hispanic voters.

The Catholic denomination has always been a democrat voting block.

Romney winning 48% of the Catholic vote, is one of the greatest republican margins of all time.

This current period of 1972 to 2012, is as good as it gets, it was the glory days of the GOP sometimes winning a slim margin of the Catholic vote.

In fact, with possibly the exception of the disputed election of 1956, ALL of the handful of times that the GOP have picked up a slim margin from the Catholics, was 1972-2012.

“”Rothman and Lichter researched and wrote a book on American radicals, “The Roots of Radicalism: Jews, Christians and the Left” back in 1982. They discovered that the Christian component of the Left were largely Catholics.””


26 posted on 11/16/2012 12:44:17 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
Ansel, I affirm what Heidelberg Catechism Q&A 80 says about the Roman Catholic Mass. Roman Catholics at the Council of Trent said some pretty bad things about Protestant doctrine, too. I do not minimize the theological differences.

I also recognize that the Roman Catholic Church on economic issues has what might be charitably called a medieval and paternalistic view of the role of the state. There are important areas of disagreement even there, and they came out when Rick Santorum’s views on economics got criticized for being out of line with standard conservative evangelical views and even more different from secular conservative or libertarian views.

However, would you not make a distinction between the general population of people who call themselves Catholics and those who are committed Mass-going Catholics? We can't compare all Catholics to churchgoing evangelical Protestants without recognizing that there are major differences in commitment levels within Roman Catholicism, just as there are major differences within Protestantism.

A practicing Catholic who goes to Mass regularly and cares about what his church teaches is going to be much more similar to an evangelical Protestant in voting patterns.

Granted, evangelicals have their Ron Siders and Tony Campolos, and seriously committed Catholics have their social liberals, too.

But I don't see social liberals as being anywhere close to a majority of practicing Roman Catholics who take their faith seriously.

27 posted on 11/16/2012 1:25:00 PM PST by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina

I’m not interested in internal religious purity of individuals within denominations, I am interested in a denomination voting democrat, in an almost perfect record for 160 years.

A powerful, large denomination, and one which has fought to pass laws to import 10s of millions of more democrat voters, to vote democrat.

The non-Catholic, Christian vote, as loose, diverse, and varied a category as one can make, has only gone democrat 3 times in history, 1932, 1936, and 1964.


28 posted on 11/16/2012 1:39:25 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12

“The Catholic denomination has always been a democrat voting block.

Romney winning 48% of the Catholic vote, is one of the greatest republican margins of all time”

You make a mistake by throwing in the welfare hispanics when you count “catholic votes”. Take away the freeloaders that expect open borders and more food stamps from the “catholic vote” that Obama received, and he gets no where near the 51% of the overall “catholic vote”. Like I have said before anyone that claims to be Catholic and still votes for the party that believes in murdering unborn children and sodomite “marriage” should not be included in the statistics for the “catholic vote”. You can’t be for abortion on demand and sodomite “marriage” and still be Catholic. But the media loves to throw in this crowd and call them Catholic because they hate the Catholic Church. And from your replies I see that you are a Catholic-basher also.

There is no more “conservative” church in the world than the Catholic Church. When Roe v. Wade came along the Catholic Church stood almost alone among the Christian faith in standing up for the rights of unborn children. 99% of all protestant “churches” went along with abortion on demand. The Catholic Church also does not ordain women and homosexuals. Just about all the protestant faiths let women preach and allow homosexual preachers. There are some leftist “catholics” out there, but they know damn well what their faith expects of them and they snub their noses are faithful “conservative” Catholic teachings. The Catholic Church does have a history of supporting democrat politicians, but there was a time when the party had not been taken over by the pro-death crowd. The party before the early 70s was pro-life and certainly didn’t allow homosexual “marriage”. The party JFK was part of would be ashamed of today’s democrat party and no doubt JFK would be republican. He was a conservative.


29 posted on 11/16/2012 4:02:00 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Hispanics just got here, and the Catholic vote has always been democrat, besides, the Catholic church is a single denomination, it doesn’t matter what race or sex a Catholic is, he is still a member of the single denomination, even baptized into it.

JFK was a democrat, and would be a democrat, and would still be a liberal Catholic calling for importing more Catholics for his party.

From unionizing government, to Vietnam, to the 1965 immigration act, JFK was the end of us.

“However, if there is one man who can take the most credit for the 1965 act, it is John F. Kennedy.
Kennedy seems to have inherited the resentment his father Joseph felt as an outsider in Boston’s WASP aristocracy. He voted against the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952, and supported various refugee acts throughout the 1950s.
In 1958 he wrote a book, A Nation of Immigrants, which attacked the quota system as illogical and without purpose, and the book served as Kennedy’s blueprint for immigration reform after he became president in 1960.
In the summer of 1963, Kennedy sent Congress a proposal calling for the elimination of the national origins quota system. He wanted immigrants admitted on the basis of family reunification and needed skills, without regard to national origin. After his assassination in November, his brother Robert took up the cause of immigration reform, calling it JFK’s legacy. In the forward to a revised edition of A Nation of Immigrants, issued in 1964 to gain support for the new law, he wrote, “I know of no cause which President Kennedy championed more warmly than the improvement of our immigration policies.”
Sold as a memorial to JFK, there was very little opposition to what became known as the Immigration Act of 1965.”


30 posted on 11/16/2012 6:32:13 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: darrellmaurina

Wanna bet? It ain’t the Evangelicals who voted... it is the ones who didn’t.


31 posted on 11/16/2012 6:48:32 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: ansel12

Like I said before, which you ignored, the democrat party was not the party of death until the early 1970s. JFK was pro-life as were all Catholic politicians. They followed their faith and it’s teachings. It was the worthless Ted Kennedy flipping on abortion, in a blatant attempt to get the bra burner’s vote, that directly led to the democrat party becoming the leftist, wacky, pro-death, pro-homo “marriage” party that is is today. You also ignored the fact that the Catholic Church stood alone in defending life when Roe w. Wade was crammed down our throats in 1973. And like I said before, devout Church going Catholics vote conservative. I could care less what the once a year at Mass crowd do. They should get out of the Church. All they do is make practicing Catholics look bad with their hypocritical ways. No one that promotes abortion on demand and homo “marriage” can call themselves Catholic. Abortion and homo “marriage” are intrinsic evils and not to be condoned by any Catholic. Period. End of Story.


32 posted on 11/16/2012 8:42:08 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: darrellmaurina

Millions of Republicans stayed home. Maybe they are sick of moderates.


33 posted on 11/16/2012 10:34:22 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: NKP_Vet

While the majority of practicing Catholics voted for Romney, not enough of them did.

We need to write letters to editors to Catholic newspapers to reach more Catholics. As long as you don’t mention a particular candidate, they can publish it without worrying about losing tax-exempt status.


34 posted on 11/16/2012 10:40:17 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: NKP_Vet

I don’t know what any of this has to do with the Catholic being democrat, as a conservative you should care about that, not trying to convince everyone that voting data doesn’t exist.

As far as we know JFK was pro-abortion, or would be if he was ever asked, someone was pushing abortion long before RVW.

I don’t really care about yours or other people’s religious issues within the church you attend, but I do regret that Catholics vote liberal, democrat and pro-abortion, as a denomination, Christians could have really used the help of voters who are Catholics.

That goes for 2008 and 2012 also.


35 posted on 11/16/2012 11:05:19 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12

“I don’t really care about yours or other people’s religious issues within the church you attend, but I do regret that Catholics vote liberal, democrat and pro-abortion, as a denomination, Christians could have really used the help of voters who are Catholics”

59% of WHITE CATHOLICS voted for Romney. If he had not been a morman he might have gotten 75% of WHITE CATHOLIC votes.

Those that identify themselves as Catholic vote the same as evangelicals or any other type of faith. If you attend Church on a regular basis you tend to vote republican. The slackers and hypocrites (all faiths included), who could less about their faith, vote for the person that promises free handouts..................and that is the democrat party.

JFK, like the vast majority of Americans before the radicals took over the democrat party in the early 70s, was pro-life. Abortion was not an issue in American politics before Roe w. Wade. Everyone knew it was wrong to murder the unborn. By the MLK Jr. was pro-life and also a republican.

Finally you need to work on your evangelical friends and ask them why they are members of faiths that believe in homosexual pastors and women preachers.........and why they take no stance on murdering the unborn. The Episcopalians being the prime example. But the Presbyterian Church, the Lutheran Church, and the vast majority of protestant “churches” ordain openly homosexuals to their ranks. They also take no stance on aborting children. So please tell me how “liberal” the Catholic Church (that allows none of this anti-God nonsense) is compared to your protestant friends.


36 posted on 11/17/2012 7:41:24 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: darrellmaurina

Yes, but those white northern Catholics assimilated into the larger culture and became culturally liberal/agnostic democrats and did not become part of the conservative movement. Hispanics now support gay marriage by about 50% and are not as religious as previous immigrants. Don’t delude yourself about the “Catholic” vote.


37 posted on 11/17/2012 7:47:29 AM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: NKP_Vet

Please show me a heavily Catholic state, city, or congressional district that votes regularly Republican. (Crickets).


38 posted on 11/17/2012 7:50:05 AM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Big government and a paternalistic state have gone hand and hand everywhere Catholicism has dominated. The Free Market is not a core part of the Romanist ethos.


39 posted on 11/17/2012 8:03:51 AM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: NKP_Vet

Your lovely fatso white working class gave Obama Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. They are also not as devout as their parents and grandparents were. There is a party for the working class and it is the Democrats. The Republicans are the party of the producers, not the Proles.


40 posted on 11/17/2012 8:08:24 AM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: NKP_Vet

Actually those who identify as Catholic voted for Obama, no one assigns the label Catholic except for the Roman catholic church, many people leave the church but the church still counts them as Catholics, yet for our political discussion, we know that pollsters only count those Catholics who still personally identify as Catholic.

There is no reason to assume that JFK was pro-life, we do know that his stealing the election has destroyed America as we inport 10s of millions of Roman Catholics to replace the American losses of the denomination, and to keep the democrat party alive and liberal.

Episcopalians are not Evangelicals and we don’t know how that denomination votes, we do know that while the Catholic denomination voted 54% for abortion and Obama in 2008, the next largest denomination, the Southern Baptists, voted 80% pro-life and republican.

The 2 largest denominations in America, and two very different votes.


41 posted on 11/17/2012 9:41:22 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: Clemenza

Catholic bash till you are blue in the face, but it’s Catholics that refuse to ordain sodomites, allow abortion and let women preach from the pulpits. The Catholic Church is the biggest Christian church in the world, the biggest Christian Church in the United States. There are more lapsed Catholics (ones that don’t follow their faith) than there are Bible-thumping evangelicals that have turned the Bible into a mockery by allowing open homosexuals to preach and women to preach and take no official stance on murdering the unborn. The liberal media and liberal democrat party has tried to destroy conservatism and Biblical principles and they have certainly been successful with the 30 some thousand alphabet protestant “churches” around the country. They have aided and abedded in trying to make a mockery of the word of God. Why in the world do you think so many protestants are leaving these protestant faiths and coming into the Catholic Church? Well let me tell you. These people are looking for the true word of God and the word of God is the Catholic Church, the only church that he started 2,000 years ago. Come on in son, the water’s fine.


42 posted on 11/17/2012 9:42:18 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: ansel12

“we do know that while the Catholic denomination voted 54% for abortion”

That number includes the 71% of hispanic “catholic” freeloader votes that ZERO received. Try again. Evangelicals can be from any faith. Episcopalians are the most liberal of all faiths in the country. Presbyterians and southern baptists a close second. JFK was certainly as conservative as moderate Nixon, who was a RINO of the first degree.


43 posted on 11/17/2012 9:50:37 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: ansel12

“There is no reason to assume that Kennedy was pro-life”.

http://vox-nova.com/2008/08/07/standing-firmly-pro-life-a-jfk-legacy/

JFK was pro-life. End of story.


44 posted on 11/17/2012 10:03:31 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

No one has any reason to assume that the liberal JFK was pro-life, no one knows, but being liberal, democrat, and the most despicable man to ever hold the office, and the man who wanted immigration to destroy America, doesn’t indicate that he was pro-life, he probably paid for many abortions in his long life of doing what he used to do before birth control, even having his girls service other men in front of him, and forcing the secret service to procure for him.

Catholic is a single church denomination of Christianity, not a religion or a race.

Catholics voted for Obama, Protestants voted like they always do, pro-life and republican, Evangelicals by a huge, massive margin, which is typical for those pro-life voters, they chose life at 79%, and we don’t have the numbers on the second largest denomination, the Southern Baptists, they probably equaled or surpassed their 2008 pro-life vote of 80%.

Catholics improved and voted for Obama and abortion by a slimmer margin than last time.


45 posted on 11/17/2012 10:43:55 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: Clemenza
If you want to know what happened to California, look at the 2004 election, and election very focused on abortion and life issues, as the propositions listed show.

Look at how the Christians who are baptized members of the Roman Catholic church voted, versus, how the much more diverse, even non-denominational, many not even baptized or members of any church, Christians who are not Catholics, voted.

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46 posted on 11/17/2012 10:52:55 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: NKP_Vet
Actually, if you look at statistics, the net gain in Catholics is entirely driven by (nonwhite) immigration. The percentage of white Catholics is shrinking.

As an ex-Catholic may I remind you, however, that there is no such thing as the "White Catholic" Church. This is why the clergy are cheering the mass waves of immigration to fill and refill the churches.

47 posted on 11/17/2012 12:38:22 PM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: ansel12

“Protestants voted like they always do, pro-life and republican”.

Tell that to 93% of America’s blacks that voted for the baby killer in chief. Probably 99% of blacks are protestant.

And like I said before evangelicals are not a demonination.
They are in all Christian faiths, including Catholics.

The Catholic Church is despised by liberal protestant faiths because of their unbending support of life in all forms, and for their adherence the scriptures, i.e., NO HOMO MARRIAGE AND NO WOMEN CLERGY. Have also found out that most protestants respect Catholics because of their moral stance on these issues. The Catholic Church will never change it’s position on these moral issues. The reason? You can’t change the Bible. Protestants are a mismatch of faiths that change as often as your elbow bending. If you don’t like what one church is preaching go find yourself one that suits your tastes. Cant do that with God’s Pilgrim Church on Earth. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. He only established one Christian church and that is the Catholic Church. One drunkard German monk can’t change this. The Catholic bashers can’t deal with the truth.


48 posted on 11/17/2012 3:44:17 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: Clemenza

“As an ex-Catholic may I remind you, however, that there is no such thing as the “White Catholic” Church”

1. There is no such thing as an “ex-Catholic”. If you are practicing the faith of your baptism you are a lapsed Catholic.

2. Of course there is no such thing as the White Catholic Church, but statistics are kept, and white Catholics voted for Romney with 59% of the vote. Obama carried the hispanics, so their percentage pushed Obama to 52% of the so-called “Catholic vote”. Catholics vote exactly like any other faith group. Devout Catholics vote conservative, the non-church going crowd vote for the man that will promise free handouts.


49 posted on 11/17/2012 3:50:41 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Meant to say if you ARE NOT A PRACTICING CATHOLIC you are a lapsed Catholic, not ex-Catholic.


50 posted on 11/17/2012 3:52:06 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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