Posted on 11/07/2012 5:18:13 AM PST by Damifino
>>> After about six months I could not continue living with that decision, when I realized that it wasn’t the government that provided food stamps, but hard-working men and women; taxpayers in other words.
If the government was running a balanced budget, that would be true... but as our debt deepens, the money is actually coming from those who continue to loan the government money. And, when the credit runs dry, and the dollar crashes, every American regardless of what they drew from government will be indebted to the nation or nations which invade our borders to collect on our debt.
You are correct; although I see this as a confirmation of my values rather than forsaking them.
Please watch RR's "A Time for Choosing". Each one us has to decide if we are committed to the shining beacon upon the hill.
Patriot groups need to transition to prepper, barter, self defense groups. We need to concentrate our forces to be more effective essentially creating independent social and economic micro- societies.
IMHO I think EVERONE should view PM’s as an insurance policy....you don't have to invest your life savings in it...its just a hedge against inflation or an economic collapse....(which seems an inevitable result to most here) Had you bought your "insurance policy" just 4 short yrs ago, it would be the best investment you could have made
From a historical perspective..the charts don't lie!
http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx
I agree the other commodities are good but a silver dollar in your pocket will never hurt you in times of trouble...
"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." - Étienne de La Boétie
I strongly suggest everyone here find this essay and read it.
I can tell you that truly "Going Galt" is very difficult. To make a long story short, I've been working on this for a few years. It's frustrating, lonely and often frightening. But worth it? Absolutely. No price is too high for the opportunity of ultimately being able to OWN MYSELF. Sorry, but there's no political solution to this. Voting is an excercise in futility. This should be obvious today.
Think you are going to be able to keep those tomato plants when the drones have spotted them?
I’m basically following this plan now. I’ve converted almost all my wealth into Roth IRA accounts, no taxes due ever again. Paid the taxes now, when rates will never be lower. The 2010 law that removed the income restrictions on Roth conversions (limits are still in place on contributions, but conversions are uncorked) is one of the greatest laws ever passed. So desperate for tax revenue today, the government is willing to rob from future tax revenues to get the money today. Combined with historically low current tax rates and you’ve got the perfect explotation opportunity to front-pay taxes now, rather than at the usurious rates that are sure to come in the future.
Upon retirement, even if you have six or seven figures in Roth accounts, your income will show up as zero on your 1040 tax form. With an income of zero, you qualify for all sorts of mooch money from do-gooder liberals. Remember, many government assistance benefits are calculated off your adjusted gross income from your 1040, not from your actual net worth. I have friends of mine now who are millionaires but get government assistance, because they have zero “income”, due to Roth sheltering. I think this past spring, there was a news story on some person in San Diego who had a beautiful beach house, but was getting food stamps or something similar. That is a perfect example of this strategy.
Why is this possible? Well, simple laziness on the government’s part. They don’t want to try and calculate your net worth. Since 95 percent of the workers in this country get a paycheck, or if retired, use traditional (taxable) IRAs and non-Roth 401k’s, the government can get a quick and easy snapshot of income just by referencing AGI from your 1040 tax form.
How about an example? What about a farmer’s widow, who has 800 acres of prime farm land (say, worth a million dollars), but who has little cash income, since farmers struggle to save for retirement and her husband left her very little money when he died? No good liberal will make her sell the family farm to pay her heating oil bill. They’ll verify she has no AGI and then cut her a check. If she has $800,000 in a Roth, they’ll be none the wiser.
Your mileage may vary, depending on your state, but check this out for yourself. My state (PA) has some give-away programs that have caught on and have started asking for AGI and also Roth withdrawal amounts for the most recent year, but many of them are still AGI-based. Get on the web and look up every program you can find for your state (e.g. assistance for home heating, prescription drugs, property tax relief, electric bill, etc.) and see what is available, to assess the viability of an “AGI=$0” strategy in your state.
Think of it as the 21st century equivalent of the 1960’s “Burn, baby, burn”.......
Your neighbor will be doing the same...he won’t want to be caught, either. And if you bribe the right people, who cares what your neighbor thinks?
That’s going to be the new reality because it’s human nature.
PS: the drones may spot the tomato plants, but when the bureaucrat comes to your door, he’s probably more interested in having some of your tomatoes than he is in turning you over to the prosecutor.
This is exactly the battle - we have to find a way.
This is exactly the battle - we have to find a way.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful but your plan depends on the current tax regulations will remain with respect to Roths (and other tax shelter vehicles). When the machine needs $$ to feed itself it will take resources wherever it can find them.
I suspect you (and all of the rest of us) will be forced to trade in your retirement nest-egg in exchange for a guaranteed govt. lifetime retirement benefit (backed by the full faith and credit of the US treasury).
No thanks.
To understand your enemy, you need to understand his language. When you see the words you have posted, translate them as follows:
"Reach out to minorities" : give them free stuff, pay more taxes, vote for politicians that favor legislation to give "minorities" more of what you have.
I was thinking the other day about something that I think is true. And that is, anyone who has ever robbed me, anyone who has ever broken into my home, any politician who has ever campaigned on a theme of "progressivism", all of these have in common one thing: they wanted my money. That is their primary motivation. When you understand that, what they do and why they do it is clear.
bump
Well, that’s the beauty of the Roth. Yes, the gov’t can change the rules. But the gov’t can’t change them quicker than I can log on to Fidelity and withdraw all my money, in an instant.
With a Roth, you can withdraw your entire balance, all at once, tax-free.
Suppose you have $500,000 in a regular 401k, that you funded over the years from your paycheck, using pre-tax contributions. The gov’t eyes that and says you have to buy a lifetime annuity from them, the scenario you describe in your post.
If you attempt to take your $500k out of the 401k, you will owe taxes on the entire amount. Since there is a considerable balance in your account, withdrawing it all in a single tax year will be ruinous, since much of the $500K will be taxed at the highest (38%) tax bracket.
If, on the other hand, you had $500K in a Roth, you can log onto your brokerage site from anywhere in the world and in 60 seconds the Roth is empty and no taxes are owed. Note: If you are age 59, no taxes are owed on either principal or gains. If you are under 59, you owe tax only on gains. Since, in my case, about 80% of my Roth balance is from contributions, my tax exposure is small if I’m forced to withdraw it all before I’m 59.
The forced annutization of 401k balances was suggested in Congress about 2-3 years back (it is the very scenario you astutely described) and that made me realize that the traditional IRA and 401k are sucker bets. With those pre-tax accounts, you basically put all your retirement savings in plain view of the government and pour figurative concrete around them by amassing a vast tax liability that is due upon withdrawal.
Another driving factor that converted me to Roths was legislation, IRC § 877A, which was enacted as part of the Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act (HEART) Act of 2008. Basically it says that if you decide to revoke your U.S. citizenship, it’s as if all the funds in your traditional IRA’s and 401k’s had been withdrawn immediately and all taxes are due immediately. Except of course for
Roth’s....
So, if the government does change the rules on retirement accounts and you pull the ripcord, would you rather owe taxes on a 401k or a nothing on a Roth?
Obviously, a well-planned strategy has a mix of physical assests (tools, land, firearms, collectibles, vehicles, etc), gold/silver, cash and tax-advantaged accounts. If you (like me) have worked in corporate America and have had to participate in retirement plans to get the valuable company matching funds, minimizing tax exposure throught the Roth is a good bet.
bfl
Yes, I get the advantages to Roth in today's economic frame. It's not today's economic frame that I fear. If the gov't pulls the ripcord, as you say, on retirement accounts they'll likely look back 9 or 18 months and seize any transferred assets. It would be similar to what is done today in a bankruptcy or litigation.
We'll just disagree on this one.
Fair enough to disagree. Except if all the money is withdrawn (not transferred) from the Roth legally (let’s use your example of 18 months before the law ever took effect).
Then say I take a wild trip to Vegas with all my Roth money, since I’m convinced I will be abducted by aliens in the near future and have only months to live. I somehow manage to lose all the money in Vegas, in a drunken haze, of which I have no memory. What will the government seize? The fact that the money may have been converted into other untraceable assets (or may be buried under my floor boards) will be a mystery to all....
I’ll throw the money on a bonfire and burn it before the moochers will get their hands on it. Sic semper tyrannis....
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