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Accused Theater Shooter’s Psychiatrist Warned Colleagues of Possible Danger
Time ^ | August 2, 2012 | Madison Gray

Posted on 08/02/2012 12:00:49 PM PDT by Malone LaVeigh

The university psychiatrist who was examining accused movie theater shooter James Holmes found his behavior so erratic that she brought it to the attention of a group that measures the possibility of violent campus threats.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsfeed.time.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aurora; holmes
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. The psychiatrist’s connection with the former student came up when defense lawyers revealed in a court motion that she was treating him. A news report says that Holmes sent Fenton a package several days before the attack containing a notebook allegedly detailing his plans.

Someone has lots of 'splaining to do.

1 posted on 08/02/2012 12:00:54 PM PDT by Malone LaVeigh
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To: Malone LaVeigh

CU has excellent science and engineering faculties. As for the rest - and the administration...well, they are in Boulder, CO.

‘Nuff said.


2 posted on 08/02/2012 12:05:31 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: Malone LaVeigh

There’s nothing you can legally do about someone exhibiting strange behavior until that behavior crosses the line and he actually DOES something dangerous to himself or others.

That’s the law. We don’t lock people up pre-emptively. It’s the price we pay for a free society.

Again, there was nothing the university or law enforcement could do, even if they were keeping an eye on him. It’s not against the law to be strange.


3 posted on 08/02/2012 12:10:21 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Malone LaVeigh

So, it now appears that once again the real lethal weapon was political correctness.....


4 posted on 08/02/2012 12:11:36 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("Jiggle the Handle for Barry!")
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To: Malone LaVeigh
Now tell us what meds she pushed on him, if she tried hypnosis and what kind of cr** she put him through.

Frankly, I think she may be the catalyst behind this kid. No doubt he went nuts....but I think there's much more to this.....much, much more.

And that's why everything is sealed....just like the pervert flaps at the college....

5 posted on 08/02/2012 12:13:34 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Jedidah
Wake up....If they did a little bit of investigation, they would have found a shi* load of stuff in his apartment.

Don't make excuses....we've seen that with the college coaches, haven't we?

6 posted on 08/02/2012 12:16:31 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Malone LaVeigh

So she violated the psychotherapist privilege? Why didn’t she tell the rest of us?


7 posted on 08/02/2012 12:16:43 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Jedidah
There’s nothing you can legally do about someone exhibiting strange behavior until that behavior crosses the line and he actually DOES something dangerous to himself or others. That’s the law. We don’t lock people up pre-emptively. It’s the price we pay for a free society.

I agree with you so take the rest of my comments only as adding to the conversation.

We do not want to cross a line where everyone that looks funny is arrested or brought in for questioning. In this case, however, it seems something else needed to be done. What that is without infringing on the liberties your rightly point out I don't know.

Any ideas? Again, you have sounded a bold and needed reminder of the cost to freedom by overreaching.

8 posted on 08/02/2012 12:19:08 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: Sacajaweau

This think stunk from the beginning, slowly finding sources for the stink.


9 posted on 08/02/2012 12:19:08 PM PDT by easternsky
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To: Malone LaVeigh

Inaction endangered not only the general public but the people in those CU facilities. In fact, one of the things I wonder about this case is why did he shoot up a bunch of strangers instead of people on the campus where he was apparently having trouble? Most of these crazies go after their own institution.


10 posted on 08/02/2012 12:19:54 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Sacajaweau
Now tell us what meds she pushed on him, if she tried hypnosis and what kind of cr** she put him through.

I sure as hell hope she was just inept. Otherwise, she was his handler.

11 posted on 08/02/2012 12:20:14 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh

Same thing happened with the Virginia Tech shooter. Councillor warned people he was dangerous if I remember right.


12 posted on 08/02/2012 12:27:17 PM PDT by albionin (A gawn fit's aye gettin.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh

Look, what is the obligation of a faculty doctor to continue to treat a drop-out?

This guy was no kid, you know. And no longer attending the University. And VERY clever even if insane. EDven in high school he knew he was different and his research area was abnormal psych.

We know more his UCD psychiatrist’s personal medical history than we do about who and where he learned to shoot guns and make bombs- and he HAD to practice.


13 posted on 08/02/2012 12:27:50 PM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: Talisker
I think she was WAAAAAY beyond inept. The first clue was that she's been in trouble TWICE at least for passing out meds without prescriptions.

I believe that he sent the package to her because he knows that she screwed with his head....and really messed him up. And that's why he told the cops about the package. If you haven't seen some of these meds at play, I'll tell you....it's scarey...

And I'll bet he also called her a couple of weeks before...more than a few times....I do not believe there is patient/patient privacy here and that she had a duty beyond what transpired.

14 posted on 08/02/2012 12:27:50 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau
If they did a little bit of investigation, they would have found a shi* load of stuff in his apartment.

And one gets a warrant for this how?

15 posted on 08/02/2012 12:28:00 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Malone LaVeigh

Look, what is the obligation of a faculty doctor to continue to treat a drop-out?

This guy was no kid, you know. And no longer attending the University. And VERY clever even if insane. Even in high school he knew he was different and his research area was abnormal psych.

We know more his UCD psychiatrist’s personal medical history than we do about who and where he learned to shoot guns and make bombs- and he HAD to practice.


16 posted on 08/02/2012 12:28:00 PM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: Jedidah
There’s nothing you can legally do about someone exhibiting strange behavior until that behavior crosses the line and he actually DOES something dangerous to himself or others. That’s the law. We don’t lock people up pre-emptively. It’s the price we pay for a free society.

Yup, that's correct. We need to be careful about how we go about this. My hope is that we can show that this case, as with Loughner before, shows just how impotent and worthless the psychiatric profession is and that we can use that knowledge to push back their increasing influence over our kids and our lives.

17 posted on 08/02/2012 12:29:38 PM PDT by ProfoundMan (Time to finish the Reagan Revolution! - RightyPics.com)
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To: Sacajaweau

I realize people hate psychiatrists but the assumption that the psychiatrist caused or exacerbated his mental illness seems less plausible than the psychiatrist simply not being successful in treating an existing mental illness.

When someone has a heart attack I don’t immediately assume it was caused by their cardiologist.


18 posted on 08/02/2012 12:32:36 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Sacajaweau

all the reports of his past suggest schizophrenia.

If you are treating a schizo you dont “push meds” - you prescribe them, monitor his mental state via med checks, and alert someone if he is not taking them and you believe he is a danger to himself or others. The bar for determining this to a legal standard of involuntary commitment is suprisingly high if the patient hides his thoughts and behaviors.

He was researching abnormal psych even when he was in high school and earning scholarships and grants for his brilliance.

I have heard little about the fact he was adopted and what his family medical history may have been as far as inherited insanity, and what his adoptive parents knew or were told about it

with HIPPA it is surprising not that his records are sealed, but that we the public know so much


19 posted on 08/02/2012 12:35:52 PM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: silverleaf

The psychiatric profession is not without flaws and there are legitimate issues with overprescription of antidepressants, anxiety meds, etc. that may or may not work....

But a lot of people have bought the whole Scientologist “psychiatry is the root of all evil, all psychiatric meds make things worse” perspective.

There’s also general misundestanding of schizophrenia as you note and, that it is obvious that in general medications help most schizophrenics greatly.


20 posted on 08/02/2012 12:39:48 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Maybe colleges need to stop refusing to share anything about a student over 18 with his parent or guardian if a therapist recommends it

hell, the parents couldnt even get this guy’s’s grades much less reports on his medical condition or drop-out status unless he signed papers authorizing the University to share


21 posted on 08/02/2012 12:39:48 PM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: Jedidah

But as a corollary, I don’t care if he’s nuts (obviously) or not. Try, convict and execute.


22 posted on 08/02/2012 12:50:47 PM PDT by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: Strategerist
Yes, I am seeing a progression here from the “ritalin makes kids crazy” to “psychiatric medications make people crazy”

You have to live with organic mental illness to know how absurd this is. Yeah crazy people take medications because they are..crazy. However, the craziness came before the meds! And sometimes it takes a lot of tweaking to find the right meds and they control but not cure the illness, and sometimes the patient doesn't take them or abuses them or self medicates to try to feel.... normal..or something else..... and sometimes there is a bad reaction to the drug and it backfires as sadly happened to some I knew. The attempt at treatment fails. This guy sounds like he was deconstructing and seeking to use his flawed brilliance to become more "powerful" as he assumed a fantasy character persona. That does suggest drug abuse. He could have induced his own psychosis by self medicating on something she prescribed or something he cooked up himself in the lab. It happens.

I believe the courts were trying to order Jared Loughner to take his meds so he was sane enough to be tried

23 posted on 08/02/2012 12:53:05 PM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: Sacajaweau

Oh puleeze.


24 posted on 08/02/2012 12:53:39 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (OWS = The Great American Snivel War)
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To: silverleaf; Sacajaweau
all the reports of his past suggest schizophrenia.

Please provide the citations.

25 posted on 08/02/2012 12:55:30 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: silverleaf

He was an adult. I see no reason why the university should share info with his family. The family should require their son to allow them to look at his University records on condition of paying for any of it or co-signing on any loans with the student ... but that’s between family members.

My brother-in-law just went through this with his daughter. She had the master password to her University account and she changed the parental password so they could not go in and see her grades. They said “fine, but don’t expect us to pay any more toward your university”. She reset the password for them.


26 posted on 08/02/2012 12:59:21 PM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: Jedidah

“There’s nothing you can legally do about someone exhibiting strange behavior until that behavior crosses the line and he actually DOES something dangerous to himself or others.”

I know that in many states - if not most - that’s simply not true. In Washington State, two doctors can swear you’re a present danger to yourself or others and have you put on in-patient watch for 72 hours.

It rarely happens though, because of the potential litigation.


27 posted on 08/02/2012 1:01:41 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (OWS = The Great American Snivel War)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

What needed to be done that wasn’t done was to stop interfering with our Constitutional right to bear arms. As long as we have that right and can freely exercise it, it doesn’t matter much when these crazies decide to blow their top, we will just put them down with a minimum of suffering and keep the rest of our freedoms intact.


28 posted on 08/02/2012 1:08:23 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: ProfoundMan

I was not, for one moment, arguing against the worth of psychiatric medicine.

I speak as one who has dealt with these issues for three close relatives, two of whom have had multiple hospitalizations for mental illness. I KNOW how hard it is to get treatment and how hard it is on families and friends who are essentially powerless to help someone who doesn’t want help.

Medical treatment, particularly targeted medication, can bring a patient back to reality and a good life. To use your word, psychiatric treatment is impotent only when it is not used.


29 posted on 08/02/2012 1:09:03 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Sacajaweau

Are you advocating a police state? You can’t just search someone’s house/apt. because you feel like it. It’s a lot easier to sound smart using hindsight.

As for comparing this to Penn State, that’s ridiculous. People saw Sandusky committing child rape. James Holmes had committed no crime previous to his rampage.


30 posted on 08/02/2012 1:11:38 PM PDT by EEGator
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To: Sacajaweau

You can’t be serious.

What “little bit of investigation” are you suggesting? A break-in?

Short of a court-ordered search warrant, there is no way to force a psycho to let you see what he’s up to. And no judge is going to issue a search-warrant without evidence.

Which brings us back to the starting line.


31 posted on 08/02/2012 1:12:22 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Iron Munro
I think that's it!

However, will that stand up when families of victims want to sue the University?

I bet it won't! In any case, it is high time for some clarity in this because innocent people are being murdered outright!

32 posted on 08/02/2012 1:15:16 PM PDT by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

As I’ve stated in another post, I’ve been through this with three relatives. Fortunately, in our cases, no one got hurt.

Somehow families and friends need more power to force a mentally-ill person into evaluation and treatment. I have no answers, but plenty of frustration.

In the case of a first-time offender, as both Holmes and Loughner were, I don’t know how we can ever act pre-emptively. One thing we can do with those who are judged a danger and locked up temporarily is to require continual follow-up and medication and arrest anyone who does not stay in compliance.

As it is now, a demonstrably ill patient can be forced into confinement and treatment, but only until he is again mentally competent. That is often just days or, at the most, weeks. Then he’s set free without compulsory supervision, and he goes off his meds in a short time.

And it starts all over again.


33 posted on 08/02/2012 1:20:02 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: silverleaf

The colleges don’t make those privacy rules. They are the (unfortunate) law. Wasn’t always that way, but rather a result of all this “right to privacy” crap.

I contend that if I’m paying for school or medical treatment for someone over 18, I should have access to documentation regarding what I’m paying for. But colleges and doctors have to follow the law.


34 posted on 08/02/2012 1:26:38 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Jedidah
Somehow families and friends need more power to force a mentally-ill person into evaluation and treatment.

Oh, yeah. Been there. And yet how do you structure it so it wouldn't be routinely abused? I wish I had an answer on this one, and I do not. BTT.

35 posted on 08/02/2012 1:30:39 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Psycho_Bunny

That’s true.

Here in Texas, family can sign a warrant that allows law enforcement to take the individual into custody and before a judge, where his mental status is evaluated and where it is determined whether he is a danger to himself or others.

But it doesn’t work very well.

I’ve seen a looney brother-in-law convince judge that the family was just out to get him, then go get in his pickup, with his rifle, and continue frightening the town, family fearing for their own safety. Fortunately, the cops in a nearby village stopped him on a traffic violation and were able to lock him up and get him committed.

He was out again in a week.

The current system just doesn’t work.


36 posted on 08/02/2012 1:41:54 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Malone LaVeigh
From what I understand, Holmes was just fine at
UC Riverside. I watched a UCR Dean speak very highly of Holmes.
During his time at UCR, he was awarded a grant to study at the
Jonas Salk foundation in La Jolla CA.

If there was any abnormal behavior,
it occurred at CU Anschutz Denver Med center.

Why did Holmes need or require a shrink ?

Who initiated the service ?

Was he prescribed Psychotropic drugs by Fenton.
Fenton has been disciplined for distributing drugs without documentation.

If so for what reason?

How did Holmes go from a very promising student
to a nut case in less than a year ?

James Holmes' Father - LIBOR

If this information is correct, James Holmes' father, Robert Holmes,
is a VIP with American Credit Score Company and is about to appear before Congress
regarding this LIBOR scandal. Guess what? Now, he is having to focus attention on this
ordeal with his mind-controlled son. This could be the reason his son was chosen as
the Manchurian candidate for yet another staged event aimed at convincing the masses
that gun control is necessary for the safety of the public.
from Godlike Productions

37 posted on 08/02/2012 1:45:23 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Lorianne

You are so right.

When my youngest entered college, the university apologetically told parents at orientation that they would not be able to share student grades and other info with us because of privacy laws. They did, however, provide each parent with a legally worded release for the student to sign that allowed parents access to all student records.

When they’re 18 and still a legal dependent, you have leverage.

I love that school.


38 posted on 08/02/2012 1:46:01 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Dear me. That’s as crazy as Holmes is, which is saying a lot.


39 posted on 08/02/2012 1:49:24 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Jedidah

“I contend that if I’m paying for school or medical treatment for someone over 18, I should have access to documentation regarding what I’m paying for. But colleges and doctors have to follow the law.”

Yes; that’s why you should insist that your adult offspring sign a Buckley Amendment waiver, in the case of college expenses, if you are paying the cost.


40 posted on 08/02/2012 1:50:56 PM PDT by riverdawg
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To: riverdawg

I did.

He was happy to.

Great kid, great young adult. You’d love him.


41 posted on 08/02/2012 1:52:43 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Jedidah
Robert Holmes - LinkedIn

42 posted on 08/02/2012 1:56:11 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
During his time at UCR, he was awarded a grant to study at the Jonas Salk foundation in La Jolla CA.

Holmes's supervisor called him, "an unusually bad intern." "Odd, ... really stubborn, ..." hard to get through to. Source

43 posted on 08/02/2012 2:08:19 PM PDT by x
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To: Malone LaVeigh

We were told that the package was not opened until after the shooting (although this warning to staff went out before the shooting).

How many of the faculty got the hell out of town that weekend?


44 posted on 08/02/2012 2:19:27 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

My heart goes out to both to all those injured or killed by Holmes and also to the Holmes family. I do not agree with your attempt to hurt anyone further with scurrilous accusations.


45 posted on 08/02/2012 2:21:18 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: Jedidah

If you are prescribing medications to someone, there is more accountability.

The pills don’t make a personal “normal”. It makes them “pass” as functional in society. He clearly had a malfunction and shot up nearly a half dozen people.


46 posted on 08/02/2012 2:23:09 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
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To: Strategerist

Would you ask an alcoholic to drive over tomorrow night to see you? Or would you ask someone “unstable” to be escorted?

People who cannot be legally held accountable for their actions by reason of insanity cannot be permitted to roam freely unescorted.

Repeatedly we see the call made to restrict gun purchase by EVERYONE when those who are deranged are often identified long before they begin purchasing. A court/physician mandated legal guardian in their company at all time would see to it that they don’t acquire a stash of firearms or rampage in a movie theater.

Some people need to be locked up as criminally insane. Or as threats to themselves and others. DWI laws prosecute those who MAY LATER CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. Not just those who already did.


47 posted on 08/02/2012 2:28:34 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
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To: x
U-2012>During his time at UCR, he was awarded a grant to study at the Jonas Salk foundation in La Jolla CA.

Holmes's supervisor called him, "an unusually bad intern." "Odd, ... really stubborn, ..." hard to get through to. Source

Perhaps the supervisor did not have the skill sets
for communicating with extremely bright students.

48 posted on 08/02/2012 2:34:41 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Jedidah
My heart goes out to both to all those injured or killed by Holmes and also to the Holmes family. I do not agree with your attempt to hurt anyone further with scurrilous accusations.

How un-American and simple minded bullying.

So Holmes is guilty until proven INNOCENT !

There is not one person in the theater who can
positively identify James Holmes.

The person who shot people in the theater
was masked from head to toe in BLACK.

If Robert Holmes is to testify in the LIBOR scandal,
Timothy Franz Geithner is involved.


49 posted on 08/02/2012 2:44:43 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Talisker

If a doctor thinks that his patient is a threat to himself or other people, they by law have to report it....she did and it was ignored it sounds like....


50 posted on 08/02/2012 2:51:16 PM PDT by goat granny
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