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Obama And Romney Are Wrong: Outsourcing Is Actually America At Its Best
Forbes ^ | 07/28/2012 | Harry Binswanger

Posted on 07/28/2012 4:02:37 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are currently fighting over who is the more patriotic. Obama slams Romney for having outsourced jobs to China during his Bain Capital days. Romney punches back by labeling Obama “Outsourcer in Chief.” The latest is that both John Boehner and Harry Reid are voicing outrage over America’s made-in-China Olympic uniforms. “Burn them!” thunders Reid.

Republicans and Democrats strangely agree that outsourcing is unpatriotic, and that the moral and patriotic thing to do is to “Hire American” and “Buy American.”

Well, no. Not in a thousand years. The fear of outsourcing and international trade is economic nonsense and moral blindness. More than that: this anti-profit attitude is un-American.

Despite the ongoing Europeanization of America, America still symbolizes the land of freedom, entrepreneurship, profit-making, above all, individualism.

But collectivism is the premise of “Hire/Buy American”: we are to view ourselves and others not as individuals, but as units of a nation. Businesses are urged to pay more in labor costs, simply to hire workers who are American; consumers are urged to forgo Walmart’s low prices, pay more, simply because the pricier goods were made by “our guys.” This is not rational patriotism, it is not Americanism, it's primitive tribalism.

American individualism means making buying decisions on the basis of economic merit, giving no regard to the nationality or race of the seller. Let’s not hide behind patriotic-sounding slogans. Let’s name things straight for a change: giving preference to American sellers over foreign sellers is the same mindless injustice as giving preference to sellers who are white over those who are black.

Economic nationalism is as morally outrageous as racism. Buying on the basis of nationality or race is the same collectivist evil: judging men and their products by the group from which they come, not by merit.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bolsteryourenemy; outsourcing; suicidaltrade
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To: GeronL

Electronics and the patents that were required to be revealed before China would allow them to be produced in country, are not worthless widgets.


51 posted on 07/28/2012 6:15:17 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Open war in the South China Sea

"By establishing a US military base in Darwin and given Washington’s 'backing' for the claimant states, especially the Philippines, against the PRC, the US and Australia have deepened their involvement directly or indirectly in the conflict, making the region more vulnerable to war."

Besides the problems listed in the Jakarta Post it seems to me that Red China's rampant economic problems, rampant unrest, and the unprecedented problems in the Party's efforts to transfer leadership -- which by itself could lead to revolution depending upon the power of Bo -- the Communists' only choice will be war to distract the population.

Then can we back America without being insulted and called names?

52 posted on 07/28/2012 6:15:51 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Olog-hai

I suppose the only point I can make at this stage is that you are not Alexander Hamilton.


53 posted on 07/28/2012 6:18:47 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: DoughtyOne
And that's another thing: as of the late 1970's, GM and our other automobile manufacturers were taking apart Jap autos to see what made them tick. That's just one example: to deny otherwise would be to claim that the Chinese "discovered" the concept.

And if that is the case, then we suck.

55 posted on 07/28/2012 6:23:16 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Tzar
First off, even the postulates of classical trade theory imply that large nations like ours can benefit from tariffs.

Milton Friedman, if he was alive, would like to have a word with you.

56 posted on 07/28/2012 6:26:11 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

“I suppose the only point I can make at this stage is that you are not Alexander Hamilton.”

You do that all the time. You did that to me back in 2004.

:-)


57 posted on 07/28/2012 6:33:08 PM PDT by sergeantdave (Public unions exist to protect the unions from the taxpaying public)
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To: sergeantdave

Alexander? You’re still alive? I never meant for you to see me naked, I swear.


58 posted on 07/28/2012 6:35:36 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: DoughtyOne

The results you cite are true, but what is the reasoning? China is growing because it’s population is producing value. The US is declining because we are producing less value - the reason? Our popular culture and leadership have become shallow and tribal.


59 posted on 07/28/2012 6:43:33 PM PDT by reardensteel
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Comment #60 Removed by Moderator

To: 1rudeboy

I think we can agree on that, at least. Now as for paying heed to what he said, I don’t know where you stand yet.


61 posted on 07/28/2012 6:56:06 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Tzar

One of the alternatives is to make certain that the government provides jobs for people who turn screws. What can possibly go wrong?


62 posted on 07/28/2012 7:00:01 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Don’t be pugnacious. I heard that the last person who saw you naked turned into a pillar of salt, and that was just after Cain passed on.


63 posted on 07/28/2012 7:03:56 PM PDT by sergeantdave (Public unions exist to protect the unions from the taxpaying public)
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: Tzar
No. Government is making that dream a reality. As soon as you come to accept that fact, you won't cast-about for bogeymen.
65 posted on 07/28/2012 7:14:58 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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Comment #66 Removed by Moderator

To: Tzar

I have an idea (channeling Milton Friedman): why don’t we have our unemployed workers rebuild our roads using only hand tools?


67 posted on 07/28/2012 7:24:26 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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Comment #68 Removed by Moderator

To: SeekAndFind
average real wage rates = average money wage rates/average prices.

When prices are lower due to lower prices for foreign goods, average real wage rates increase and the buying power of the average wage earner increases. When average real wages increase the standard of living for the average wage earner increases.

69 posted on 07/28/2012 7:33:28 PM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: Tzar
Improve my act? How do you propose the that the government makes sure that blue-collar workers have jobs?
70 posted on 07/28/2012 7:46:56 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: GeronL
The problem is that this government has the highest corporate tax rates on Earth and is hostile to investment... what did they think would happen?

I shortchanged you with regard to this point. I honestly agree that this is an additional insidious aspect of why jobs moved off-shore.

71 posted on 07/28/2012 8:06:47 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: Olog-hai

Thanks for the response Olog-hai. I agree with your take on the beginnings of adventurism in our own hemisphere.

Folks are sleep-walking into a buz-saw with regard to China.

I can sure identify with people who saw Hitler for what he was in the mid 1930s.

If you follow the logic trail around here, you note that the people we have right here on this forum would have been arguing that trade with Germany would have prevented WWII.


72 posted on 07/28/2012 8:10:44 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The correct term is “right sourcing”. Few use it. But if it costs me $4 per unit to source something from Singapore and $8 to source it from Kansas with the same availability and quality, what would you do?

Now many companies have experimented with foreign sourcing and could not get the availability and quality required for their businesses. They either switched back to the US or the went out of business.

Thomas Sowell is my favorite authority on outsourcing. This is just one of his many comments on the topic.

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2004/03/16/outsourcing/page/full/


73 posted on 07/28/2012 8:25:32 PM PDT by jimfree (In Nov 2012 my 12 y/o granddaughter will have more relevant executive experience than Barack Obama)
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To: DoughtyOne
nice segue opportunity for me.. I just finished sourcing most of this..

"The state-owned Chinese mining group Chinalco . . . in the remote Central Highlands . . . will be ruinous to the environment, displace ethnic minority populations and threaten national security with an influx of Chinese workers and economic leverage," warned General Giap and other opponents of the Chinese operations. Here That was a couple of years ago now VN vis-a-vis China is more like.. Anti-Chinese protests in Vietnam as South China Sea tensions rise

Yes, I believe that there will be war. I remember W.W.II but I do not remember the 1930s. However I know we had U.S. businesses experiencing "free trade" in the 1930s; for example, prominent Democrat W. Averell Harriman and many U.S. corporations. I bet there was a lot of praise for that German economy.

No appoligies for my pessimism.. I remember every Chi-Com attrocity against the Chinese people.. at least the ones that were reported here at the time. The Party is no good.

74 posted on 07/28/2012 8:25:56 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: reardensteel
The results you cite are true, but what is the reasoning?  Increased corporate profits.  As another posted stated, enhanced with tax incentives too.

China is growing because it’s population is producing value.  U. S. employees were still producing value when the decision was made to sell them out and move a massive body of our tax base off-shore.

The US is declining because we are producing less value - the reason?  Our popular culture and leadership have become shallow and tribal.
  If you move a massive amount of your manufacturing base off-shore, it's definitely going to spark value in the nation where those jobs go.  And that value will be missing from your own soil.

I'm not immune to the claim there are some serious problems with our own culture and leadership, but I don't think that's the full cause of what took place.  I will say that I thought it was a massive betrayal of values to send fellow citizen's jobs, paychecks, and ability to pay their mortgages outside our borders.

This caused tens of millions of U. S. citizens to drop to a razor thin margin of avoidance when it came to defaulting on their credit obligations.  Add in the additional problems with credit drying up around 2008, and the whole house of cards was going down.  There was no longer any redundancy.


75 posted on 07/28/2012 8:32:49 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: DoughtyOne
RE: "If you follow the logic trail around here, you note that the people we have right here on this forum would have been arguing that trade with Germany would have prevented WWII."

You do not have to go that far back.. I remember the liberals and the internationalist Rockefeller Republicans demanding that we help build the Soviet economy.

If we refuse to help the Soviets we'll be playing into the hands of the hard-liners in the Kremlin, there will be war, and it will be our fault.

In those days there were enough left from the Greatest Generation who knew better and they said, No.

76 posted on 07/28/2012 8:46:21 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
I do believe the party still rules with an Iron fist. I think people are kidding themselves if they think it doesn't.

Here in the U. S. we're seeing the first moves to use the military against citizens, with a full division now assigned to duty inside the U. S.

If our government is willing to do that because it's so afraid of us, what must China's government be willing to do?

And yet, folks are convinced that China's military machine is completely innocent, or about to dissolve at some magical point in time just ahead. Sorry, I never had a magical stick-pony when growing up, so I'm not inclined to believe in pipe dreams now.

You mentioned Chinese government atrocities against their own people. Here's one I remember. I also remember three years later when we implemented a new policy to offshore as many jobs to China as we could. That was the leadership's punishment for running people over with tanks and mowing them down with military weapons.

WilliamOfCarmichael, thank you for the post. It's nice to know some folks are still able to learn from history.

We sure were great friends to the Chinese who died in 1989. We sold them out sooner than a wife we caught in the home bedroom with ten fellas.

77 posted on 07/28/2012 8:49:36 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

Why doesn’t that shock me? I do remember the trouble Reagan ran into trying to take out the U.S.S.R. It’s amazing the the sell-outs within isn’t it.


78 posted on 07/28/2012 8:53:10 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: All
EXTRA! EXTRA! China set to replace U.S. as the world's super power by next Wednesday afternoon.. oops er, there will be a little delay.

Uh.. we free traders thought they all had achieved middle class status with bulging pockets of money crazy to buy our products -- that is if the government will let us have access to the domestic economy. Oh well..

China uses wealth in a new kind of colonialism

Chi-Com plans are to build 225 cities each to hold one million people.. and boy! are they needed.. but can the commies do it? Personally I hope not. The Party is no good.

With a population of about 1.3 billion and maybe 400 million doing relatively well -- including Party and princeling billionaires and millionaires -- there remains hundreds of millions in poverty.

An estimated 125 million living on less than a dollar of day (yuans?), there are at least 220 million in a floating population of migrant workers.. 600 million rural poor constantly being screwed by the urban folks and the local Party officials. This may take another month or two.

79 posted on 07/28/2012 9:09:02 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: DoughtyOne

The cheese moved, but Americans were no longer capable of finding it.


80 posted on 07/28/2012 10:40:51 PM PDT by reardensteel
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To: Olog-hai

I wanted to learn something about the depth of your knowledge of trade. Apparently it is pretty shallow since you didn’trespond.


81 posted on 07/29/2012 4:16:58 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: DoughtyOne

The implosion of Maoism released the pent up energy in China. America did not do that.

You’ll be pleased to know what I read this morning. That is, China is mot experiencing population growth but likely decline. The rigid one child law coupled with the female trend to delay child birth has the fertility rate far below that required for replacement. The economic growth trend may be dampened by the decline.

Lastly, I’ll concede some of what you say is true except it is not our doing. The modernization of China is a natural historical event. Once the severe bonds of communism were thrown off, it couldn’t be repressed. While not gone, the repressive failed collectivism is no more.

The challenge is to learn to deal with the reality......... China is.


82 posted on 07/29/2012 4:28:39 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: BfloGuy

If I save 10 cents on a dollar buying cheap slave made imports, only to have my taxes go up to feed and house our unemployed, did I save money?


83 posted on 07/29/2012 4:43:13 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

What precisely are you ranting about...... slave made imports?


84 posted on 07/29/2012 4:50:06 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: 1rudeboy; Tzar
hey are far more American than shipping jobs to our enemies and blaming Americans for not taking non-existent jobs. The government has been purchased by free traders. The government is with you on this one.

Rude, better put some ice on that, I know that left a mark.

85 posted on 07/29/2012 4:54:31 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

The stupid, it burns!


86 posted on 07/29/2012 4:55:53 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: jimfree

Manufacturing costs are not half in China. Labor is on average 10% of the finished good’s retail price.


87 posted on 07/29/2012 4:57:25 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: bert
Once the severe bonds of communism were thrown off

Tiananmen Square

88 posted on 07/29/2012 5:00:44 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: DoughtyOne
If you follow the logic trail around here, you note that the people we have right here on this forum would have been arguing that trade with Germany would have prevented WWII.

Hop on board, everyone! Let's take the logic trail to the strawman!

89 posted on 07/29/2012 5:02:00 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Hop on board, everyone! Let's take the logic trail to the strawman!

Soviet Union had free trade right up to the day the Nazi's invaded in 1941. Actually train shipments of raw materials from the USSR to Germany continued for days after the invasion because business is business. Then Stalin woke up from a drunken stupor and canceled trade after he realized the Nazi's were actually invading.

90 posted on 07/29/2012 5:07:31 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: bert

That’s an inexact science, and it’s too intertwined with politics on the international scene anyhow, so it’s better to know a country’s foreign policy. Or do you not focus on foreign policy? Any claims that China will abandon communism for the free market are false. Or was that sixtieth anniversary military parade where Hu Chin-t’ao appeared in grey Mao dress not a wakeup call?


91 posted on 07/29/2012 7:06:23 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: central_va

Indeed. Free trade is completely separate from a free market. Both Nazi Germany and the USSR were non-market economies that practiced free trade with each other. Non-market economies are mercantilist at their core though, and if allowed free trade with a free market will strip that market bare.


92 posted on 07/29/2012 7:09:58 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: central_va

So, while we are on the “logic trail,” tariffs would have prevented World War II?


93 posted on 07/29/2012 7:17:52 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Olog-hai; central_va
I recall that the German-U.S.S.R. "free trade" was something to get around the military arms restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles --

Germany was prohibited from almost all things military.. the Soviet Union offered them a way..

"The Soviets offered Weimar Germany facilities deep inside the USSR for building and testing arms and for military training, well away from Treaty inspectors' eyes. In return, the Soviets asked for access to German technical developments, and for assistance in creating a Red Army General Staff."

(From a wiki source.) The Soviets with German technology helped build another German war machine even before Hitler.

Today of course there are no such duplicitous and evil schemes.. the Communist Party has indeed faded away and the workers in the paradise of the democratic Republic of China don't care about being a great power they just love to make inexpensive and great things for the Americans. . . . all is well.. except for the problems caused by the "protectionists nut jobs." :)

94 posted on 07/29/2012 8:36:02 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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Comment #95 Removed by Moderator

Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: WilliamofCarmichael

Today of course there are no such duplicitous and evil schemes.. the Communist Party has indeed faded away and the workers in the paradise of the democratic Republic of China don’t care about being a great power; they just love to make inexpensive and great things for the Americans. . . . all is well.. except for the problems caused by the “protectionists nut jobs.” :)
I tried coming up with a good meme snowclone to match this, but nothing’s coming to mind right now that would be really witty.
97 posted on 07/29/2012 8:54:41 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: 1rudeboy
So, while we are on the “logic trail,” tariffs would have prevented World War II?

No, tariffs actually cause wars sometimes. That is why we have a military, more specifically a Navy, to act as a deterrence. Sometimes, well always, the US worker should be protected from the Free Traitor™, willing to sell out the average 'Joe' to communists in this case.

My guess you think Nevil Chamberlain was on "the right track" when dealing with the Nazi's.

98 posted on 07/29/2012 9:25:08 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Tzar
Stop illegal immigration and limit legal immigration to no more than a few thousand high need workers per year. Retaliate against Chinese currency manipulation. Protect our industries to the same extent our trading partners do. Remove onerous regulations which make American industry uncompetitive. Open up ANWR and remove regulations which prevent us from exploiting our energy resources. Build nuclear reactors.


99 posted on 07/29/2012 9:37:18 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: central_va

Is that where the logic trail leads? Dude, invest in a GPS receiver.


100 posted on 07/29/2012 9:38:58 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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