Posted on 07/11/2012 10:18:43 PM PDT by Kevmo
Cold Fusion Is Hot Again - Tuesday, July 17th 9p | 12a ET "A report on cold fusion - nuclear energy like that which powers the sun, but made at room temperatures on a tabletop, which in 1989, was presented as a revolutionary new source of energy that promised to be cheap, limitless and clean but was quickly dismissed as junk science. Today, scientists believe that cold fusion, now most often called low temperature fusion or a nuclear effect, could lead to monumental breakthroughs in energy production."
References, plesae?? There are plenty of publications that show excesses well above any "errors or noise".
"And in 20+ years of work on this we've still never gotten passed the occasional claimed replications in a lab setting. They can't even do a public demonstration that works. It is useless, and counting on it for any of our future energy needs is the equivalent of buying a lottery ticket.
Nanor's public demonstration has been running at MIT for six months. That certainly exceeds the minimum standard of "it works". As to why things have taken so long,,,, see my previous remarks about stalling and stifling.
Prove it wrong, Mr. LOL. You’re the Freeper who didn’t do the homework on the last thread, and I was amazed at the level of your stupidity and laziness. I think it is likely I will be amazed once again by the same thing.
Kevmo: I am advocating proportionality. OUR money should be spent on energy research with an eye towards how many Joules of energy have been generated so far.
Chin: I don’t think OUR tax dollars should be spent on either.
***Then, once again, where is your outrage? A quarter TRILLION dollars goes down a public rathole, and you’re quibbling about UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE odds and 1/100th of 1% of the public money spent on cold fusion.
It’s really more than that, though. You’ve actually got theories on why it can’t work,
***Produce them.
How much "excess energy" did Rossi produce?
How many gallons of "water" did he use?
Which means that the end result may be a complete dead end not even possible in theory.
***Again, Produce The Evidence. If it was PROVEN to be IMPOSSIBLE, how is it that the effect is replicated so many times? I went through a very simple mathematical proof that showed your earlier contention was Mathematically IMPOSSIBLE, so it should be easy enough for you to produce data that backs up what you say. But most anti-LENR Luddites won’t do that, they just stubbornly stick to their disproven opinions because they jumped on that bandwagon years ago and they ain’t gonna put on their thinking caps.
And in any case, superconducting is far more reproducible than is CF.
***THAT is BECAUSE so much PUBLIC MONEY has GONE INTO it, just as it SHOULD be going into LENR.
I don’t recall a lot of federal dollars being spent on that,
***And yet, even though you don’t recall it, it is still the case.
nor do I see anyone promising it as some magical solution to energy needs.
***Classic fallacy used here. A combination of false analogy, conflation, and non sequitur.
Whatever private parties choose to do is their business. And btw, I’m not here predicting that hot fusion is going to solve our energy problems either.
***Again, where is your outrage? A Quarter TRILLION dollars of OUR money, 1/1000th as many Joules produced.
Well, I suppose there is the element of solar power that comes from fusion reactions, though.
***What? Try to make some sense here.
There have been traditional fusion reaction produce a heck of a lot more energy than that.
***Here you step into the classic hot fusion fallacy trap that, because there are fusion bombs, it counts towards harnessable energy. NO way, No how. Apples and oranges. 50 years spent chasing that rainbow, no pot of gold at the end.
But in any case, I didn’t have outrage on HF because this wasn’t an HF thread.
***Fusion is Fusion; Cold Fusion is fusion, and Hot Fusion is Fusion. This is a fusion thread. HF competes with CF for funds, legitimacy, mindshare, etc. All the public money has been pissed down the HF rathole, whereas if only 5% of it were spent on CF, we’d have LENR jet packs by now.
Well, I’m with that guy waiting for his toaster. I know a thermonuclear reaction will make me a piece of toast. Or make me toast, for that matter. When the CF folks have figured that one out, the rest of us will start paying attention.
***Same bowlsheet, over and over, from the ignorance crowd. Where is my Hot Fusion toaster? We spent $250 Billion, where is it? Why do you spend any cycles whatsoever on discouraging cold fusion when it has not cost us even remotely near the same that HF cost us? Do you realize that all that nonsense you’ve been parroting came directly from the HF crowd, that it was Your Money that paid for them to NOT Produce any results worth mentioning, but they used Your Money to knock down this competing technology? That makes you a stooge.
That’s your PROOF? Asking more questions? Showing that you did NOT DO any fact checking or homework?
HAHAHAHA! Ridiculous. What an incredible LOON you are. Again, I say WOW! Just WOW. That is an amazing level of ignorance you have shown and continue to show. Wow. Did I mention how amazing such ignorance is? WOW! Unbelievable ignorance.
You want me to prove a chemical reaction can release enough energy, give me the target I need to hit.
You should try this thing called science. It involves real numbers.
Let me know if you ever find some, so I can show everyone how silly your claim, "the heat generated is several orders of magnitude more than could be possible with any known chemical reaction", really is.
I mean seriously, I'm embarrassed for you.
I hope I didn't make you cry.
You want me to prove a chemical reaction can release enough energy, give me the target I need to hit.
***Bowlsheet. I pointed you to the rehash thread from a year ago.
How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real (or Fake)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2730401/posts
There’s more than enough numbers for you to pull down chemical reaction figures, in particular the Tarallo water fake. But you didn’t even read the post, you just looked for someone who disagreed with what was said and parroted his response. You should try this thing called science. It does not involve getting others to do your own footwork.
Nanor’s public demonstration has been running at MIT for six months.
***Soon the bar will be raised to 9 months for a public demo to be valid, then 12months, etc.
16 kWh=16kJ/sec
2H2O2 → 2H2O + O2 ΔHrxn 98kJ/mol
16kJ/sec ÷ 98kJ/mol =0.163 mol/sec
0.163 mol/sec ÷ 0.833L/sec =0.196M
H2O2 weighs 34 g/mol
34*(0.196)=6.664 grams of H2O2 per liter of solution.
That's weaker than the hydrogen peroxide in my medicine cabinet.
Now tell me again about 1000 times more energy than any known chemical reaction.
Thanks for finally doing your homework. Why does a freeper have to ridicule you so many times just to get you to do your homework?
The last ping on that thread was from me asking Alan Fletcher to cover H202. He never responded.
2H2O2 —> 2H2O + O2 deltaHrxn 98kJ/mol
***That would mean that there’s no H202 on the output water. So how is testing the output going to reveal this as a fake? You would test the input water, to find the 6 grams per liter of solution, which I think was done by observers.
Now tell me again about 1000 times more energy than any known chemical reaction.
***It was observed to be water at the input, that’s how. Rossi could be a fake, that’s why that thread was posted in the first place. Naturally, if you want to pursue this path of calling him a fake using this H202 trickery, you would need to post how Rossi is able to get 600degreesC for 45 days like he’s been claiming lately. There are other researchers who get similar results and there’s no fakery involved; it’s water in and water out, with a delta temp that cannot be accounted for with chemical reactions of only water.
That assumes all the H2O2 broke down. That assumption isn't necessary to release the energy needed.
You would test the input water, to find the 6 grams per liter of solution, which I think was done by observers.
You think?
It was observed to be water at the input, that’s how.
Back up there, cowboy. You said there was no possible way it could be a chemical reaction. 1000 times more energy than any possible chemical reaction, you said.
It ends up that H2O2 easily releases enough energy. It doesn't even have to be concentrated H2O2.
Rossi could be a fake,
Luddite! Seagull! LOL!
you would need to post how Rossi is able to get 600degreesC for 45 days like he’s been claiming lately.
Yeah, as soon as someone credible shows he did that, then I'll worry about that claim.
You said there was no possible way it could be a chemical reaction. 1000 times more energy than any possible chemical reaction, you said.
***Yes, and it is still true. If the input water was just water, what chemical reaction could produce a delta temp like that?
It’s simple enough to test the input water for H202, right? Do you think that EVERY SINGLE researcher who got excess heat in their LENR experiment was using H202 and that input water was NEVER tested?
That wasn't your claim. Your claim was that even if Rossi cheated, and used chemicals, there was no possible chemical reaction that could produce all that "excess" energy. What did you say about orders of magnitude?
And you were wrong. By orders of magnitude.
I honestly have no idea. But I certainly refuted your claim about no possible chemical reaction, by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE, didn't I?
If he didn't save your bacon then, what makes you think he'll do it now? He's only made 2 posts to FR and that was a year ago.
And before you going crying to mommy about me posting to you:
Maybe that’s true of your freepmail, but when you post in the open, it’s basically like sending a freepmail to every freeper.link
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