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Could gay marriage debate drive young Christians from church?
MSNBC ^ | July 3 2012 | Becky Bratu

Posted on 07/03/2012 4:26:09 AM PDT by scottjewell

As the battle over gay marriage heats up in this election year, one evangelical Christian writer is calling for a truce, fearing that the outspoken opposition to gay marriage among some church leaders could alienate an entire generation of religious youth. . . . A 2011 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute shows the generation gap between young Christians and their elders is large, with 44 percent of white evangelicals aged 18-29 in support of marriage equality compared to only 12 percent of those 65 and older. According to the same survey, nearly 70 percent of young Christians also agree that religious groups are alienating young people by being too judgmental about gay and lesbian issues. “For young Christians, having gay and lesbian friends is just a part of our life,” Held Evans said. “It’s just really hard for us to see them as mere issues to debate, because we’re talking about our friends here.”

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: christians; gaymarriage; genx; geny; homosexualagenda; sodomhusseinobama
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To: trailhkr1

I agree adults have done a poor job for decades. The war with sin is never lost. More people just need to say what they think and quit being so PC.

Gay marriage isn’t about marriage, its about bringing down our culture. When you phrase it in those terms, and show its connection to the bigger picture I’ve found that younger people pay more attention.


51 posted on 07/03/2012 8:21:58 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: longtermmemmory

Yes, “equal marriage” was a clever choice of words over “same sex marriage”.


52 posted on 07/03/2012 8:23:56 AM PDT by scottjewell
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To: Bluebird Singing

isn’t this the rev. lefty Wallis group?

these are probably one homosexual in an executive space (or deleware po box) with just a fancy name for BS goebling.


53 posted on 07/03/2012 8:32:00 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: L,TOWM
There is also truly little love being showed from people that are commanded to love EVERYONE, especially their ‘enemies’.

So, what does love look like? Is it “oh you poor thing, did they hurt your feelings? Keep on doing what you are doing, it will all work out.”?

It is important we have a Biblical understanding of love, NOT a worldly understanding.

The only ones that truly loved me were the ones that took the time to correct me and set me on the right path. It didn't look like love at the time but it was the HIGHEST expression of it.

There is a big element of truth in the word love and it offends the world greatly.

54 posted on 07/03/2012 8:37:38 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: L,TOWM

—Many churches have done a really bad job of defining Christ’s central message “I love you enough to die for you and nothing you do or can do will stop me loving you.”—

I confess that since I moved to a dry county in Kentucky and go to a baptist church I have some challenges there. I’m a student of prohibition and what a travesty it was. Its impact is still being felt all over the country. In fact, where I live, it gave rise to the Cornbread Mafia. Look it up.

So my pastor, whom I know fairly well now, speaks of the sale of liquor as though Jesus himself condemned it and it is proof of how the country is falling away. Meanwhile, what he doesn’t know is that I’m joining in our town to make the town wet. I need to share that with him.

But this homosexual thing needs to be treated like all sins. I often will tell homosexuals that I treat HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR like any other sexual sin. i.e. it is a SIN and nothing to be proud of. And homosexual marriage is an oxymoron. Literally.


55 posted on 07/03/2012 8:49:16 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: driftdiver
So you choose to ignore the passage in God’s Word which instructs us to worship with others?

People who are looking for a reason not to attend church are going to find it.

56 posted on 07/03/2012 9:40:12 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: trailhkr1

If you love the fags so much then take your young, liberal self elsewhere. You are obviously more liberal than you realize.


57 posted on 07/03/2012 10:33:47 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: trailhkr1
Face it, the gay issue has been lost and if conservatives keep pushing this the Republican party and conservative movement is lost with the younger generation. No, we are not necessarily agreeing with gays and condoning it..just that we think there are way more important issues to worry about.

LOL, when I was your age, I knew it all, too.

58 posted on 07/03/2012 10:37:47 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: scottjewell

How is that different from any other sin?

I had friends in college who were shoplifters.
I have friends today who are adulterers.
I have friends who are liars.

Still sin.
Still friends.
I’m still a Christian.


59 posted on 07/03/2012 10:37:55 AM PDT by gitmo ( If your theology doesn't become your biography it's useless.)
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To: gitmo
How is that different from any other sin? I had friends in college who were shoplifters. I have friends today who are adulterers. I have friends who are liars. Still sin. Still friends. I’m still a Christian.

Exactly, I don't understand how young Christians can't reason that they don't need to leave the Church because they have friends who engage in sex outside of marriage, pornography (and let's not go into how the men of the Church struggle with that), and profanity and can't include homosexuals in that. It seems as if they've been brainwashed into thinking that this is the one thing that isn't OK to list as a sin.

60 posted on 07/03/2012 10:58:39 AM PDT by chargers fan
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To: trailhkr1; Graybeard58

You’re here to promote liberaltarian/hedonist/leftist values. You have no clue how many of your age group are still naturally repulsed by mentally ill sexual perverts running things.

I’m really sick and tired of your crap pushing the homo agenda on FR. If you think money and taxes are the only thing that’s important and that moral values can go to hell that you should stay away from FR and go visit some Paultard/Libertarian droolfest sites.

You think faggotry is of no importance because of your own mental, moral and spiritual infirmity. The homo agenda also destroys our constitutional freedoms, so you also spit on the Constitution and our rights. You also must be fine with faggots in the military, contrary to all facts, evidence and the viewpoint of most in the military. I guess fag rape is fine with you too, since homosexuals are notorious for molesting “straights” in the military.

I’ve had enough of your crap and I hope you get banned.


61 posted on 07/03/2012 11:03:51 AM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: chargers fan

They have been brainwashed into recoiling at the suggestion that homosexuality is a sin.

Remember, this is a war between Christ and Satan.
Satan seeks to establish his kingdom here on earth and destroy Christ’s bride.

Homosexuality is simply one of his weapons in the battle. The immediate goal is to criminalize the Church, and the left seeks to do that through the issue of homosexuality.


62 posted on 07/03/2012 11:10:36 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: trailhkr1

There’s no “anti-gay push”.

What you’re seeing is a resistance to the “gay push”.


63 posted on 07/03/2012 11:12:00 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: ohioman

Oh, hew realizes it. He’s here to promote junk and has been since he first appeared. He probably thinks he’s on a mission to “enlighten” the rest of us barbarian antiques.


64 posted on 07/03/2012 11:16:19 AM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: scottjewell

Young, old and in between...doesn’t surprise me.

Too many people are judgmental hypocrites focused on the sins of others rather then just humbly and honestly dealing with their own.


65 posted on 07/03/2012 11:16:22 AM PDT by wallcrawlr
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To: little jeremiah
I’m really sick and tired of your crap pushing the homo agenda on FR.

I've never pushed it and don't..I just don't care about it as do many conservatives.

If you think money and taxes are the only thing that’s important and that moral values can go to hell that you should stay away from FR and go visit some Paultard/Libertarian droolfest sites.

Don't like Ron Paul..and you can be moral and don't care about gay rights

You think faggotry is of no importance because of your own mental, moral and spiritual infirmity. The homo agenda also destroys our constitutional freedoms, so you also spit on the Constitution and our rights. You also must be fine with faggots in the military, contrary to all facts, evidence and the viewpoint of most in the military.

Never said it not important..just that we have more important things to worry about. When people are out of a job and losing their homes and life savings the last thing they worry about is two guys butt f**king each other.

I guess fag rape is fine with you too, since homosexuals are notorious for molesting “straights” in the military.

Against all forms of rape including gay rape.

I’ve had enough of your crap and I hope you get banned.

I'm pro military, pro 2nd amend, against abortion, want small gov't and less taxes but I am a lib huh because I don't walk 100% with you.

People like you LJ have done more to tear conservatives apart and help reelect obama.

You have nothing but a one track mind regarding conservatism and don't look at the big picture.

Based upon your post I would not be surprised you are a militant lesbian troll tearing apart conservatives into different factions. SRS, you need to get a life.

66 posted on 07/03/2012 11:21:32 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchen)
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To: wallcrawlr

Sounds as though you’re focusing on the “sins of others” who focus on the sins of others....

If homos did what they did without forcing everyone else to “accept” it, no one would know or care.


67 posted on 07/03/2012 11:22:30 AM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah
Oh, hew realizes it. He’s here to promote junk and has been since he first appeared. He probably thinks he’s on a mission to “enlighten” the rest of us barbarian antiques.

Not at all. Just telling you how people my age think about this issue. It's a fact whether you want to believe it or not. You have your head in the sand if you think all conservatives think 100% lock step as you do.

68 posted on 07/03/2012 11:25:17 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchen)
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To: scottjewell

Church leaders would do well to remember that the Bible is not a ‘living’ document as is the constitution. We don’t get to vote on whether or not God was correct in His warnings against homosexual behavior.

Young people are being brainwashed right now with a massive liberal propaganda campaign in the culture and in schools. Some will fall with liberalism suffering the consequences and some will mature to understand liberalism is not about love of mankind and freedom.

Christianity urges, love the sinner and despise and reject the sin. Liberalism urges love the sinner by embracing the sin. If young people are too stupid to understand that simple but important difference, they are going to fall for all sin and darkness promoted by liberals.


69 posted on 07/03/2012 11:33:37 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: scottjewell

Many have been conditioned to think that marriage comes from the state, as pieces of paper that denote a contract that can be broken and resumed between any parties the state allows for. And that is it. The definition the state uses is simply whatever judges, pols or the majority think it is at any one time. It was always a danger, at least in the modern era. Pope Leo XIII warned about what would come of it 130 years ago.

Freegards


70 posted on 07/03/2012 11:35:50 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: trailhkr1

This generation is numb to sexual immorality.

In order to understand why it is so heinous, it’s probably better to focus on other examples of sexual immorality which God also condemns and warns that such thinking will result in one not inheriting the Kingdom of God. (1Cor 6:9-11)

For example, let’s say masturbation or lustful thinking in one’s heart independent of any other person and independent of thinking through faith in Christ. That will just as assuredly remove one from an inheritance of the Kingdom of God as homosexuality. Homosexuality is just less convenient and more perverse.

Younger believers are better off studying Scripture through faith in Him to understand why such admonitions from Christ and the epistles and the Old Testament are so adamantly presented. They aren’t flippant or bigoted, but communicate a very real truth which isn’t always available when influenced by worldly systems of thinking.

Everybody has sinful temptations, so a homosexual isn’t justified to commit immoral actions just because he has those thoughts.


71 posted on 07/03/2012 11:49:35 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: driftdiver

No, I have been fortunate enough to be part of churches that mostly contain people heumble enough to recognize that their brokeness is not somehow better than the brokeness of others. Even perverts. There is a large difference between approval/allowing certain behavior and speaking truth in love.


72 posted on 07/03/2012 11:59:17 AM PDT by L,TOWM (Write in Chuck Norris for POTUS and tell the power brokers to FOAD.)
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To: scottjewell

>>>>>I agree; things like porn and adultery, not to mention high divorce rate, make “Christians” feel they cannot afford to judge, or it is safer not to judge ....<<<<<

And they would be correct. It is safer for a Christian not to judge (see Matthew 7:1 & 2).


73 posted on 07/03/2012 12:02:33 PM PDT by L,TOWM (Write in Chuck Norris for POTUS and tell the power brokers to FOAD.)
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To: PeterPrinciple

>>>>>So, what does love look like?<<<<<<

What comes to my mind is washing the feet of a group of people that you have lived with and showed the power of the Kingdom of God to for 3 years. Included in that group of people that had their feet washed was a man that would hand you over to the authorities for a couple of months worth of wages and another guy that would deny that he even knew you three times bfore the night was through.

That’s what loves looks like. Serving. And yes, correction is part of that, but proper correction requires the corrector have some standing with the one being corrected.


74 posted on 07/03/2012 12:13:48 PM PDT by L,TOWM (Write in Chuck Norris for POTUS and tell the power brokers to FOAD.)
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To: L,TOWM; driftdiver

There is no similarity between people who have sinned or fallen to temptation but have stopped such acts and repented of them, and those who continue to “glory in their shame”.

An occasional - rare - falldown to previous bad habits, accompanied by remorse, repentance and increased vigilance to avoid such temptation, is completely different from steeping oneself is perversion with no intention of change or even admitting that such behavior is wrong.


75 posted on 07/03/2012 1:23:19 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: driftdiver

I’d say that it is homosexuals who are not treating the rest of us very well, not the other way around. They also don’t treat children and young people very well, in their herculean efforts to recruit.


76 posted on 07/03/2012 1:25:46 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: trailhkr1

If you didn’t care about homosexuality, you wouldn’t constantly support it. If you want to claim that 85% of all young people are pro-fag agenda, prove it. And I have never claimed that all people who are generally conservative hold my views, but most do, or they aren’t conservative. You don’t even know my views about most things anyway. Anyone who is pro-homo agenda is NOT conservative. Why? Because the homo agenda is all about PUSHING nastiness on everyone else. If they kept their nasty private lives private, no one would know or care. I used to be “live and let live” about them, but once I educated myself, and their political agenda manifested, I change. And anyone who cares about the Constitution has the same viewpoint.

Another standard talking point of homoagenda pushers - you accuse me of being a homosexual myself. Standard drivel. And you accuse me harming conervatives by standing up for moral absolutes - more nonsense.

You are either mind numbingly ignorant or a liar, or what is more likely, both; in your assertion that the economy is more important that the nasty things homos do to each other (and of course countless thousands of children and adolescents). You totally ignore the totalitarian homo agenda that is forced on the entire country - destroying our freedoms of speech, religion, association, private property, the freedom to run businesses or charities freely, and so on.

You and similar liberlatarians claim you are conservative - all you are is stingy liberals who like guns. You care nothing for the real foundation of our country and the Constitution - which is the real foundation.


77 posted on 07/03/2012 1:36:47 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah
If you want to claim that 85% of all young people are pro-fag agenda, prove it

I never said they are pro-fag. They(I) just don't care about the issue. There is a difference.

And I never said you are harming the conservative movement by standing up for moral absolutes. What I said is you have a strict ideology that many conservatives don't agree with in terms of importance and that makes them(me) wrong in your mind and that tends to turn people off after you hammer them.

I have been going to my local Tea Party rallies for almost 3 years...and NEVER has anything doing with gays been brought up. Just because the issue is of extreme importance to you does not mean it is of importance to others.

BTW I do apologize for what I called you. It was not right. Wish this site had a edit button but I get upset when I get called a liberal when I am not.

78 posted on 07/03/2012 1:55:20 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchen)
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To: scottjewell

I can just see Christ doing this “truce talking” to those who left in exasperation over his teaching.

Not!!!


79 posted on 07/03/2012 2:03:42 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: trailhkr1

I never said they are pro-fag. They(I) just don’t care about the issue. There is a difference.


If anyone “doesn’t care” about the homo agenda that means by default they are for it, since it is being shoved down everyones’ throat fast and furiously. “Don’t care” is BS. There is no neutral ground. For it, against it, there is no other alternative. It’s like not being “for or against” how Hitler treated the Jews in the 30s. No one was neutral and if they said they were, that means it was okay with them.

And Godwin’s law does not apply, as the homo agenda and Nazism have many similarities.


80 posted on 07/03/2012 4:04:39 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: trailhkr1
I never said they are pro-fag. They(I) just don't care about the issue. There is a difference.

Yeah, I probably didn't care much about family and appropriate cultural influences for my children when I was in my twenties.

I do now.

And I'd be careful trying to catagorize too generally what your cohort may think about homosexuality.

Y'all have been so relentlessly indoctrinated, from childhood, to accept it as normal, and even desirable, that I don't think you can really know how you think about it.

I know this, though: people tend to react negatively upon learning they've been lied to.

81 posted on 07/03/2012 5:28:49 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: trailhkr1; little jeremiah
I've never pushed it and don't..I just don't care about it as do many conservatives.

I don't know how many conservatives you think you speak for but morality is at the very core of conservatism and is closely linked to fiscal conservatism. You certainly seem to be advocating a "big tent republican party", that tent is already too big allowing people like mittens to represent it, it doesn't need the 1%-2% of the population that practices faggotry in our midst.

Don't like Ron Paul..and you can be moral and don't care about gay rights

I'm not even sure what that means but you cannot be moral and not care about the issue of queer marriage and queers adopting children. Those issues are very real moral issues and conservatives do indeed "care" about them.

People like you LJ have done more to tear conservatives apart and help reelect obama.

That is nothing but an outright lie and the name calling that followed that statement is liberalism, plain and simple.

We get it, you don't care about morality.

82 posted on 07/03/2012 6:45:11 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58

What is morality is not up for a vote, not subject to individuals’ whims, not debatable, and there is no sliding scale or grading curve. Morality is not decided by polls or popularity, it doesn’t change with the times, and it doesn’t evolve.

And people when are immoral in their so-called private lives, oddly enough that immorality seeps through and taints everything they touch. And vice versa, I might add.


83 posted on 07/03/2012 11:08:39 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah

No argument here. I suppose the best example of what I am talking about can be found at: http://stonethepreacher.com/ The man that operates that website is an associate pastor at the church I attended when I lived in the LA area. That church was large enough to have discipleship, teaching, and accountability throughout our body. That church also emphasized evangelism.

LJ, I have always respected your views. As I have walked with the Lord, I have come to realize that it is easy to tell somebody that they are going to burn for eternity unless they get right with Jesus. It is easy to invite people to church or ask them “if you died right now, where do you think you would go?”. It is much, much tougher to be somebody’s friend, gain standing in their lives, honor them (in spite of what they do), and speak truth with love into their lives.

It is easy to condemn a sinner for what they do and I spent years doing just that. The task I have set myself to over the last few years is speaking forth the renewing life that Jesus gave me and holds out to everyone.

At one point in my life, I had thoroughly steeped myself in addiction, with no intention of changing or even admitting that such behavior was wrong. Praise God that He saw me differently and gave others the vision to see me one day saved, healed, and delivered from THAT disgusting path to death! I have come to see no difference between between the things I did while I was lost and the things the vilest perverts do right now. All of us will one day answer for those things, and a piece of paper that says “married” is irrelevant. The Blood of Jesus is my answer and while I am here, steering people to the foot of cross has to be my priority.

Winning souls is my Father’s business. Understanding that a government can call something a marriage that my Father will never acknowledge as true is my business. SSM is a non-issue in my book; it is only another lie of the world to overcome, one soul at a time.


84 posted on 07/04/2012 5:49:32 AM PDT by L,TOWM (Write in Chuck Norris for POTUS and tell the power brokers to FOAD.)
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To: L,TOWM

Wonderful testimony.


85 posted on 07/04/2012 8:01:02 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: L,TOWM

By the way, my point earlier was that the republican party doesn’t need the pervert vote nor should they seek it by caving to their immoral demands. I have a different perspective about trying to get one to come to church to hear the word of God. God can and does save people from their sinful ways and that includes the sin of homosexual practice as well as the addictions that you and I both had.

James 5:

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I’m not acquainted with a homosexual, that I’m aware of but if I were, I’d certainly invite him to church.


86 posted on 07/04/2012 8:11:09 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: chargers fan
I don't understand how young Christians can't reason that they don't need to leave the Church because they have friends who engage in sex outside of marriage, pornography (and let's not go into how the men of the Church struggle with that), and profanity and can't include homosexuals in that.

The men I hang out with are addressing pornography in the church directly. I think it's shameful that we hide behind our church masks. We need to recognize that most men in the church are at the mercy of pornography and lust. Their wives are devastated when they find out because they think their guy is the only one.

I talked to a lady the other day who was ready to leave her husband because she found out he was doing porn. I explained to her how easily it can ensnare a man, and that 80% of the men in her church were probably doing the same thing. It wasn't until we talked about how God can free a guy that she calmed down.

I shared my personal experience in that sin and how God's grace freed me and she became hopeful.

Talking about it openly robs it of some power. It also helps women "get it", because very few do.

87 posted on 07/04/2012 12:00:17 PM PDT by gitmo ( If your theology doesn't become your biography it's useless.)
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To: PeterPrinciple; L,TOWM
Love is not waiting until the guy is being cast into Hell to decide to tell him the truth.

Love is telling people how they can be freed from the bondage that sin is. And showing them the joy of freedom.

88 posted on 07/04/2012 12:05:31 PM PDT by gitmo ( If your theology doesn't become your biography it's useless.)
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To: L,TOWM

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and I will try to respond tomorrow.


89 posted on 07/04/2012 10:11:19 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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