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To: arrogantsob
Madison declared once in the Union always in the Union.

Madison said [my bold]:

The compact can only be dissolved by the consent of the other parties, or by usurpations or abuses of power justly having that effect.

Madison was one of the coauthors of Virginia's ratification of the Constitution which said:

... the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression, and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will.

Virginia cited that in their secession document of 1861.

Albert Taylor Bledsoe, in his 1866 book, "Is Davis a Traitor or Was Secession a Constitutional Right Previous to the War of 1861?" notes the following regarding the Virginia ratification:

In the first place, the Constitution was not to be established by the people of America as one nation, or by “the people of the United States as one great society;” and this fact was perfectly well known to the Virginia Convention of 1788. It has already been sufficiently demonstrated, that the Constitution was ordained, not by the people of America as one great society, but by each People acting for itself alone, and to be bound exclusively by its own voluntary act. It would be a great solicism in language, as well as logic, to say that the people of the United States as one great society, might resume powers which were not delegated by them. The sovereignty which delegates, is the sovereignty which resumes; and it is absurd to speak of a resumption of powers by any other authority, whether real or imaginary.

Then again, New York's ratification of the Constitution was voted for by the two other authors of The Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay [my bold again]:

Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New York; July 26, 1788.

WE the Delegates of the People of the State of New York, duly elected and Met in Convention, having maturely considered the Constitution for the United States of America, agreed to on the seventeenth day of September, in the year One thousand Seven hundred and Eighty seven, by the Convention then assembled at Philadelphia in the Common-wealth of Pennsylvania (a Copy whereof precedes these presents) and having also seriously and deliberately considered the present situation of the United States, Do declare and make known. ...

That the Powers of Government may be reassumed by the People, whensoever it shall become necessary to their Happiness; ...

... Under these impressions and declaring that the rights aforesaid cannot be abridged or violated, and that the Explanations aforesaid are consistent with the said Constitution ... We the said Delegates, in the Name and in the behalf of the People of the State of New York Do by these presents Assent to and Ratify the said Constitution.

The New York ratification was accepted by the other original states.

78 posted on 06/25/2012 2:12:46 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
***. . . Madison said . . . ***

You are definitely a delegate! ;-D

88 posted on 06/25/2012 2:30:45 PM PDT by Bob Ireland (The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise)
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To: rustbucket

So Obama is using Constitutional means? So we should revolt?
Rather than support the Constitution if he is NOT? Which is it?

You will note that Madison references “the powers...being derived from ...the People of the United States...” NOT the people of Virginia or Connecticut.

By 1861 the leadership of Virginia no longer understood what it was quoting. The political leadership of the South by then was pitiful.

The quote trying to justify the Treason of 1861 is wrong. The constitution was ratified by the People of the United States gathered in conventions within the states as Congress ordered. It was NOT allowed to be ratified by state legislatures, the highest state authority. The reason the legislatures were not allowed to ratify was PRECISELY because Congress was not going to allow a legislative act which could be rescinded by a subsequent legislature. Secession would indeed have been legal had that been allowed wrt ratification.

The NY ratification was accepted by Congress not the other states and it was NOT conditional.


153 posted on 06/26/2012 9:23:25 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Obama must Go.)
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