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To: arrogantsob
Madison declared once in the Union always in the Union.

Oh, well that's it then! Whatever Madison said is law.

No, seriously I've read some books on this and secession was viewed as always on the table in America until the Civil War put an end to it. There were debates about secession in New England, as well as in the South, for generations. So, a lot of people got it wrong, I guess.

Doesn't the 10th Ammendment guarantee secession, as a right reserved because it is not mentioned in the Constitution itself?

I think Thomas Woods Jr. has written on this.

57 posted on 06/25/2012 1:40:00 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Jack Black
The north was prepared to allow the south to secede. Lincoln was even negotiating for transfer of federal property. That fell apart when South Carolina lowered it's tariff to 10% and Massachusetts screamed bloody murder. It had assumed the south would remain a captive market for it's manufactured goods and a supplier of raw materials.

The south was conquered and treated as a conquered nation. Reconstruction installed puppet governments and probably caused more racial animus than anything else.

The way I see it, the war simply established that might makes right and nothing else.

67 posted on 06/25/2012 1:56:36 PM PDT by trubolotta
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To: Jack Black

“Doesn’t the 10th Ammendment guarantee secession, as a right reserved because it is not mentioned in the Constitution itself?”

At least someone understands how the Constitution works. The Constitution gives certain powers to the feds and denies certain others to the states. It does not take powers away from the states without saying so.

The only way there’s actually an argument is over states that didn’t precede the Constitution. But that’s specious. You can say they were created by the federal government, though that’s reductive and arguably inaccurate. Actually, the people—that is, sovereign people—have to apply to be a state before the feds take notice.

Anyway, once they’re made states their statehood is equal to the other states, yes? Nothing anywhere says Arizona is a state in every way New York is a state except they’re not sovereign. They are sovereign because they are a state. That’s what it means to be a state. If they’re something else, then we should stop calling them “states.”


79 posted on 06/25/2012 2:13:28 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Jack Black

The greatest of our leaders: Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson, Lincoln and Madison ALL viewed the idea of secession with horror.

A lot of people did get it wrong but not any of our greatest thinkers.

Washington’s Farewell Address was pointed at the “designing men” who spoke of secession. Read it if you don’t believe me.


146 posted on 06/26/2012 8:54:49 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Obama must Go.)
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To: Jack Black

The 10th amendment does not change the legal mechanism set up to change the Constitution which secession from the Union would be so there is nothing reserved which would allow secession by States.


147 posted on 06/26/2012 8:57:14 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Obama must Go.)
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