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To: WOSG; P-Marlowe
The place to move the party is in primaries; the presidential primary is over,

Actually, it's not. There are plenty of Californians wondering why they wait so long to vote.

Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Oregon, Arkansas, Kentucky, Texas, California, New Mexico, S Dakota, Nebraska, Montana, and Utah all beg to differ with you.

That's somewhere around 600 delegates, all of which is again proof that the primary system stinks.

I would favor a system wherein each congressional district elected a respected, elector, him or herself presidential caliber, and then all the electors would gather in a "presidential conference" and they would then caucus and vote to determine the party's nominee from their midst or from some stellar nominee not in their midst upon whom they agree.

This is similar to the method the Founders envisioned the presidential election taking place. (It is visible in the Constitution.)

1,351 posted on 05/05/2012 4:51:55 PM PDT by xzins (Vote Goode not Evil (the lesser of 2 evils is still evil))
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To: xzins

Ron Paul has to many enemies to win the Republican Nomination at an Open Convention in Tampa.

However, Ron Paul is one of the two keys, (Santorum being the other), to forcing an Open Convention in Tampa.

Ron Paul already has won 4 State Primaries, and needs to win just one more to qualify as a Nominee Candidate at the Tampa Convention.

This would greatly upset the GOP-E, but probably not Romney as he has always been clueless about how many voters really dislike him.

Although Ron Paul cannot win the Nomination in Tampa, he can along with our help create the proper environment for an OPEN CONVENTION in Tampa.

Then the Open Convention delegates can draft a REAL Republican.

Sort of a round-about way of bypassing the Romney/Obamalite/GOP-E sinking ship, but here is how I see it:

1.) Vote in large turnout numbers in the remaining Primaries, for Ron Paul as an ABR vote, (Anybody But Romney), especially if you vote in the May 29 Primary in Texas.

2.) Work and Lobby for an Open Convention.

3.) Draft a REAL Republican as the Republican Nominee.

An Open Convention will upset the Liberal Agenda Media, and their political consultants who already (in their minds) have Obama re-elected.

We need to draft a REAL Republican in 2012 and avoid the sorry Romney years if Romney beats Obama.

IMHO, Romney will loose by a hair to Obama which will require that Obama be immediately IMPEACHED in order to save our Republic.

Obama or Obamalite, the US Federal Government will not have it’s, and therefore our, financial house in order by 2016.

Thus, political resolution of the main problem: OVERSPENDING BY THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, may not be achievable in 2016.

Hence, it is IMPERATIVE that we have an OPEN Convention in Tampa so that a REAL Republican can be drafted, albeit kicking and screaming, to be the Republican Party Nominee for the Office of the President of the United States of America.

I have outlined above how voting for Ron Paul as a Primary wedge against Romney could lead to an Open Convention in Tampa.

Since Ron Paul cannot win the Nomination, he would serve as our last active best wedge hope of defeating Romney AND the GOP-E in an Open Convention.

Primary Candidate Ron Paul is the last active non-Romney Candidate left standing between the GOP-E’s Romney, (= probable loss to Obama in November), and an Open Convention of a Republican that can soundly defeat Obama.

A “win” over Obama is not enough, Obama MUST lose in a LANDSLIDE!!!!!!

NONE of the Primary Candidates have shown that they have that potential.

It is time for an Open Convention to choose the best Presidential Candidate.

It is time for us Conservatives to turn out in massive numbers in the remaining primaries, especially in the big electoral delegate states such as Texas, and vote for ANYBODY BUT ROMNEY!

Ron Paul needs only to win one more State Primary to qualify as a Nominee Candidate, and therefore is our best chance for an Open Convention to select a GREAT Nominee, such as Senator Jim DeMint.

I think a Real Republican would be our best choice, but first we must work to have an Open Convention in Tampa.

What say all of you?


1,372 posted on 05/05/2012 10:09:42 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: xzins; All
I would favor a system wherein each congressional district elected a respected, elector, him or herself presidential caliber, and then all the electors would gather in a "presidential conference" and they would then caucus and vote to determine the party's nominee from their midst or from some stellar nominee not in their midst upon whom they agree.

That's a decent idea. You're correct in your assessment that the problem are the primaries.

I'm not sure a plurality, much less a commanding majority would be reached in that system however; I foresee many voting for themselves for the nomination, thus having the "winner" having at most maybe 1-5% of the total vote, which is not exactly a mandate of the GOP as a whole, thus weakening such a candidate considerably in the general election. After all, the Dems would love to hem and haw all day in the general how their GOP opponent only had 5% of the total GOP behind him, especially since their system of selection is so different.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but really, given the last two primaries, I think I have reason to be cynical as far as the GOP is concerned.

I suppose there could be a rule where one couldn't vote for oneself, but then to enforce that rule, open voting would have to be enforced, which would result in voter intimidation, based on back room deals of the "elite".

Really the central "problem" faced in the primaries, to be blunt, is the fact that the majority of the states that vote first, and thus set the tone or momentum of the eventual winner, are not filled with conservatives. See the table labeled "Early State Primaries" here (forgive the Wikipedia reference, but the timeline of primaries is not exactly controversial, at least as a now historical fact, so Wikipedia is a reliable source here).

Note that except for SC, the rest of the states are, at best, mixtures of "moderates to conservatives", with the "moderates" outnumbering the conservatives. I mean, we know that is a fact, I don't think I have to prove that here.

So therein lies the problem. In those states that set the tone, that give the early winner "momentum", there aren't enough conservatives to truly dictate who is actually conservative, to give that person momentum. This is why I said long ago, when all the Palin fans were giving her a pass for not having entered the race when, for example, Romney had, that if she intended to enter the race, she was being foolish, because this is when the real race is decided.

What I've stated is simply realistic, pragmatic fact. We can argue all day about how "the reason the momentum is set so early is because the media hypes it up", but it's pointless to, as the famous song says, "p*** into the wind". So, that is the problem that must be solved, not the media's hype, because we can't do anything about that, but the fact that the GOP has decided, for whatever reason (wink wink) that these states should go first.

So, what I would propose is a change in the way the state's order would be decided. We have the technology now to be able to make this happen. Every registered GOP voter should be given an opportunity to decide which STATE goes first in the primary, then which is second, and so on. It is my belief that there are enough true conservatives in the GOP that care enough about their country to vote appropriately. For example, I live in MD, but I have no fairyland dream that to vote for MD to go first would truly help a true conservative nominee.

That is the only way I can see to truly solve the issue of having moderates rammed down our throat every nomination cycle. That, and/or of course true conservatives (like Palin) actually getting in the race very early, to gain momentum through the old way. (The problem with the latter of course is that the establishment funds the moderate nominees enough that they can sustain early and long campaigns; to that end, we will have to become another "establishment", encouraging true conservatives to get in early, and funding them, if my idea above is unpalatable.)

These are the only two ways I can see of curtailing the establishment we have now, IMO.

1,382 posted on 05/06/2012 7:37:09 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: xzins

“The place to move the party is in primaries; the presidential primary is over,”
“Actually, it’s not.”

I havent voted yet either, our primary is late May, but, yes, the presidential primary was over the moment Santorum withdrew from the race. Nothing new for me - my presidential primary vote have never ‘counted’. Sure we will vote later, but the conclusion is fore-ordained now that Santorum and Newt are endorsing Romney. That’s a majority of delegates right there.

Your idea is a good one, but what you describe is pretty much the conventions as they used to occur. We formally still vote for delegates not candidates, its just they are tied to candidates and since 1956 every candidate won on the first ballot. Perhaps if we had a national primary day, it would work better, but I suspect that would only help the ‘media’ candidates and I’m not sure it would end up the way you think it would. On the flipside, the primary system does a better job in preparing candidates for a general election campaign.


1,401 posted on 05/06/2012 12:30:03 PM PDT by WOSG (Anyone But Obama)
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