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Documentary ‘The War on Kids’ compares U.S. public schools to prison system
Foxnews,com ^ | May 03, 2012 | By Hollie McKay

Posted on 05/03/2012 6:26:48 AM PDT by US Navy Vet

Are public schools becoming more and more like prisons?

That’s what the documentary “The War on Kids” says.

Based on interviews with educators, medical professionals, students and sociologists, the documentary, which received a limited film festival run in 2009 and is being released this week on the Documentary Channel, paints the picture of an increasingly authoritarian and paranoid school system that is failing its students, stripping them of their civil liberties and constitutional rights.

“Kids have no voice. Everyone pretends to care, but it is never true, and it’s the children who are being blamed for all the failings in the education system,” filmmaker Cevin Soling told FOX411’s Pop Tarts column. “People do not learn when they are in such an autocratic environment

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: homeschooling; learning; propagandacenters; publicschools; teaching; unions
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"Public""Schools" "Public Toilets" not much difference!
1 posted on 05/03/2012 6:26:50 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
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To: US Navy Vet

The “public school”, including the “charter school”, is BY FAR, the largest, most expensive, most subversive, and most destructive entitlement program in the country.

The “public school”, including the “charter school”, is better understood as the “government school collective”.

It is silly to imagine that you can fix the public schools, because the very concept itself is communist.

Any child that comes out of the government school collective with their moral compass and common sense intact does so in spite of the government school indoctrination, not because of it.

If you want to win the culture war, have lots of children (see my tagline) and homeschool them or form your own school cooperative with your church or synagogue and like-minded friends and relatives.

Nobody loves your children more than you do.

Nobody can teach your children like you can.

Your children would love nothing better than to be taught by you, if you start doing so before they are corrupted by the government school collective.

It is hypocritical for you to submit your children to an authority with whom you fundamentally disagree. And your children will know it.

If you have children, make whatever sacrifices you must to get them out of the public schools.

DO NOT FEED THE BEAST!

Especially not with your own children.

And DO NOT TAKE GOVERNMENT “EDUCATION” MONEY!

He that pays the piper calls the tune, and that’s especially true for any government “education” program.


2 posted on 05/03/2012 6:32:13 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: US Navy Vet; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; AccountantMom; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

Another Reason to Homeschool Ping.


3 posted on 05/03/2012 6:36:18 AM PDT by JenB
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To: US Navy Vet

I agree that the subject matter taught is liberal, but I disagree with the schools being overwhelmingly authoritarian.

My wife is a teacher, who hates hiw they are forced to teach the curriculum, but she says that the parents have the principals and teachers in fear of their jobs and believe that their children can do no wrong.


4 posted on 05/03/2012 6:36:21 AM PDT by TennTuxedo
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To: US Navy Vet

I finally decided to pull my kid from public school mainly over this. ALL of the terminology - and thus much of the attitude - derived from prison admin. “Cells”, “blocks”, “lockdown”, “parole”, etc. Sick beyond words, and an integral part of the emerging police state I think.


5 posted on 05/03/2012 6:47:27 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Obama's record is an open charnel pit. Romney's too, but under a whitened sepulchre.)
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To: TennTuxedo
My wife is a teacher, who hates hiw they are forced to teach the curriculum, but she says that the parents have the principals and teachers in fear of their jobs and believe that their children can do no wrong.

Well said!

6 posted on 05/03/2012 6:53:20 AM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: US Navy Vet

Seems like a lot of public school teachers are ending up in prison recently, for acting like their students are their own personal dating pool.


7 posted on 05/03/2012 6:59:17 AM PDT by Newtoidaho (Fight organized crime. Vote out all incumbent Democrats!)
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To: US Navy Vet

Schools do not put the kids on medication... your family doctor or a psychiatrist do. I get tired of parents conceding all of their parental authority and decisions to government run institutions. No one is required to put their kids on ADD meds or any other type just because a teacher/counselor recommends this.

One of my kids went to private schools the other transferred to public school in fourth grade. Both received excellent educations... school systems differ from state to state, and county to county. In fact my daughter who is graduating from public high School was lucky enough to take 8 AP classes.
Painting America’s school systems with a broad brush is what the left does... and why they want a National system.
I’m perfectly happy with the way the schools are run in my very blue county, in a very blue state.


8 posted on 05/03/2012 7:00:15 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: TennTuxedo
Many public schools are good examples of ‘anarcho-tyranny’ in action. The true trouble makers and thugs could care less about suspension, expulsion or transfer to ‘alternate schools’. Various ethnic and cultural and now ‘sexual identity’ minorities whine and bully the administration so they are protected from any discipline and are ‘more equal than other’ as protected classes. For the rest they get the brunt of the endless micro managing rules and nanny state bullying that is what government does best. The latter is not new as I remember in about 1953 getting into hot water for daring to bring a box of Cracker jacks to school for morning and afternoon ‘snack’ in defiance of the ‘healthy food’ ukase that was in effect even then in spite of the crap the cafeteria served at lunch.
9 posted on 05/03/2012 7:01:47 AM PDT by robowombat
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To: Katya

Peole like YOU ARE the problem. Have yet ANOTHER SWIG OF THAT Kool-Aide!


10 posted on 05/03/2012 7:13:10 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Katya

Government schools are wrong for a number of reasons. High on the list is that it’s immoral to take money from me at gunpoint to pay for your children’s so-called education.

Then there’s the fact that even the advanced coursework is pretty much garbage. Or the pervasive humanist worldview, the emphasis on obedience to authority, and the unhealthy way schools warehouse hundreds of kids together all day every day. Like prisons.


11 posted on 05/03/2012 7:23:57 AM PDT by JenB
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To: US Navy Vet
Oklahoma City Daniel Webster Junior Prison, class of '69.

The warden was a widely notorious character named "Moosehockey" or somesuchting.

12 posted on 05/03/2012 7:24:44 AM PDT by OKSooner (Never take a "known safety risk" shooting with you even if he is an ordained minister.)
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To: US Navy Vet
I've been making this comparison for a long time.

All things run by a central government eventually devolve to the standards of the lowest common denominator.

13 posted on 05/03/2012 7:29:13 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: JenB

RE: Homeschooling - I have no doubt that the radical leftists in this country are planning to make it illegal to homeschool. It’s just the way they are - control freaks and enemies of anyone who will not toe their line.

That being said, I love the idea of parochial schools and other private church based schools. Obama’s HHS mandate is a challenge to all of us as it will affect whether such private schools will remain open. So, in some respects, the HHS mandate is also a shot across the bow, so to speak against all private schools.

If the government moves against private schools, and then legislates home schooling to be subversive and illegal - we are doomed! Some people may think I am crazy, but it is not a far stretch of the imagination to see how this could happen.


14 posted on 05/03/2012 7:30:02 AM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Westbrook
Another aspect to examine, aside from the utterly corrupt and politically-driven public ed system, is the brainwashing that teachers themselves must undergo in B.Ed programmes. These programmes force some mighty unpalatable rubbish down the candidate teacher's throat. You can be sure that little of it is relevant to teaching. The B.Ed system is designed to demoralize and filter out those who really want to teach and those who would be good at it. What comes out of the B.Ed meatgrinder are mindless indoctrinated "teachers" who are mathematically and scientifically illiterate. Hence they have little to impart to students. All they can be are 'facilitators', i.e. people who tell kids what page of the book to turn to and read. I kid you not. I met a B.Ed teacher who did not know that the Moon revolved around the Earth, for example.

Someone with a real degree (say, a degree in chemistry) or some real knowledge would not want to waste his time doing 4 years of B.Ed just so he can teach what he already knows well. The logic of our society dictates by law that an imbecile with no knowledge of chemistry would do the job better, because he/she did a lot of left-wing BS in a B.Ed programme.

By ruining the teaching profession, future generations are ruined, standards are lowered, education becomes propaganda, and the goal of social revolution becomes nearer (so the spawn of satan think.)

Yes, the government's education system must be destroyed. Not just the public school system, but the laws that prevent schools from hiring talented and skillful teachers who come from non-B.Ed backgrounds must be wiped out.

15 posted on 05/03/2012 7:45:38 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Evolution!)
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To: US Navy Vet

I cringe when I hear schools talking about being under ‘lockdown’ - that’s a prison term. The again with union goons doing the ‘teaching’ (if you can call a system that can’t teach kids to read, ‘teaching’) it might be the right term.


16 posted on 05/03/2012 7:52:18 AM PDT by GOPJ ("A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: US Navy Vet

bkmk


17 posted on 05/03/2012 8:33:36 AM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: GOPJ

If your look at the most recently build schools they have almost no windows, very few doors, and are surrounded by chain link fences. If that is not a type of prison I don’t know what is.


18 posted on 05/03/2012 12:09:46 PM PDT by WMarshal (Bitter Clinger)
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To: JenB

I am in complete agreement that the federal government should stay out of the education system...
I choose to live in the state in which I reside, knowing full well that I may be paying more in taxes for this or that. We all have free will and can move to states that have no income tax, or very low property taxes. If the public at large in an individual state supports using tax money to fund public education... I don’t know how you can argue the money is used illegally.
I would personally prefer to pay for my kids education, which I have done for many years.
My beef with the story is this over generalization regarding schools in America. Most of us know there are some terrible school systems, but there are also some which do a very good job of educating the students.
Particularly bright students... even in the most liberal system they end up receiving the most advantages.

If my local schools hadn’t been great, I would never have taken my youngest out of private school.


19 posted on 05/03/2012 1:06:47 PM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: JenB; metmom; wintertime; fieldmarshaldj; Impy; GOPsterinMA

The comparison is very apt.


20 posted on 05/03/2012 3:43:31 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A liberal's compassion is limited to the size of other peoples' paychecks)
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To: Katya; JenB; US Navy Vet; GOPJ; WMarshal; Ethan Clive Osgoode; Gumdrop; E. Pluribus Unum; ...

Most of us know there are some terrible school systems,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

1) So?....When did the voting mob get the right to FORCE godlessness on captive children and to FORCE the citizen to pay for the establishment of this godless worldview. When did this become great?

Just too cooperate in the classroom the child must think and reason godlessly in his godless government school. How could it be otherwise?

2) Simply by attending socialist-entitlement schools children risk becoming comfortable with socialism.

3) Where is the evidence that some government schools are good? Huh? Prove it to me. Where at the studies that show how much is entirely due to the afterschooling, tutoring, and work done by the children IN THE HOME and not due to the government teacher. There aren’t studies because schools of education have never done them. The results would put the government schools out of business.

4) Government schools trash every First Amendment Right. They strictly control speech, press, assembly, and expression of religion, and they FORCE a godless worldview on their captive students.

5) In many ways, children in government schools are treated like prisoners.

Personally, I consider government schooling to be sooooooo evil for the child and such a threat to our continuing freedom that I have made a decision. I will no longer have a government school teacher for a friend. They are to evil, too stupid, or too much of a Useful Idiot to be a friend.( I won’t have an abortion worker for a friend either. )


21 posted on 05/03/2012 5:40:49 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: wintertime; Katya
Personally, I consider government schooling to be sooooooo evil for the child and such a threat to our continuing freedom that I have made a decision. I will no longer have a government school teacher for a friend. They are to evil, too stupid, or too much of a Useful Idiot to be a friend.( I won’t have an abortion worker for a friend either. )

Winter; Aren't you the man/ woman that sent your kids to public schools when it was convenient for you? Didn't you tell all of us that your kids went o community colleges and state colleges? Weren't you the one that went to a state school to get some sort of medical degree?

Wow this really sounds hypocritical of you doesn't it?

22 posted on 05/03/2012 7:06:16 PM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga; wintertime

I’m glad I never made any sort of changes to my worldview, ever! It’s so hypocritical to have a slow conversion to the truth, or even worse a Road to Damascus moment!

And I don’t believe I’ve seen wintertime attack state colleges. That’s an entirely different discussion from government schools.

I believe government schools are evil too. I was homeschooled from day one, my husband was homeschooled, our daughter is homeschooled. Is my ideology pure enough for me? Because I don’t always agree with wintertime’s rhetoric but I do agree with the statement that “I consider government schooling to be sooooooo evil for the child and such a threat to our continuing freedom”.


23 posted on 05/04/2012 6:05:36 AM PDT by JenB
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

Wow. I majored in English at college, just with a good old B.A., major in English, minor in Mathmatics.

I knew that the moon revolved around the earth well before college. Never even took a class in college regarding astronmoy. Might have had one or two math problems in trig that involved the moon...

I can’t even remember when I first knew the moon revolved around the earth. That’s how long I’ve known it. How could you live that long without having figured it out at some point?

‘Course, I was homeschooled. But most of my friends weren’t, and this tidbit of information did not escape them.

That teacher must have been a grade A idiot.


24 posted on 05/04/2012 9:01:34 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (25 and conservative. I guess I have no heart, Oh, well, makes shooting the bad guys easier.)
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To: wintertime

bttt


25 posted on 05/04/2012 3:49:49 PM PDT by GOPJ ( "A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: WMarshal
If your look at the most recently build schools they have almost no windows, very few doors, and are surrounded by chain link fences. If that is not a type of prison I don’t know what is.

Most new schools also have guards or police officers on duty - teachers who sexually abuse attractive inmates - oops, I mean students, and an adversarial relationship with the parents of the 'students. Also when a teacher's a thug - or violent, the 'system' doesn't fire them...

You have a point there, WMarshal

26 posted on 05/04/2012 3:59:12 PM PDT by GOPJ ( "A Dog In Every Pot" - freeper ETL)
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To: JenB; wintertime
I’m glad I never made any sort of changes to my worldview, ever!

Great use of the straw man argument and hyperbole to avoid the use of actual facts.

It’s so hypocritical to have a slow conversion to the truth, or even worse a Road to Damascus moment!

Winter's ginning of the system and use of public education when it suited her /his needs has been documented time and time again.

And if I have mischarecterized anything why isn't she /he pointing out my errors?

27 posted on 05/04/2012 5:54:43 PM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga; JenB
Verga,,

Hopefully, over the past 40 or more years ( if you are that old) you have changed your mind on some issues. Unlike the rest of humanity were you born with perfect understanding?

Given your insistence upon perfect consistency in human behavior over the course of a lifetime, then how do you manage in this imperfect world populated with imperfect humans?

Are conservatives who argue for the abolishment of social security hypocrites for taking social security?

Are conservatives who advocate for the return of federal lands to the states hypocrites for visiting a federal park or BLM lands on occasion?

Are those who are pushing for a fair tax or flat tax hypocrites for paying their taxes? What about those who are vehemently against abortion? Are they hypocrites for not holding back some of their taxes?

28 posted on 05/04/2012 7:12:46 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: wintertime; JenB
Winter, The issue is not consistency or inconsistency and it never has been. Nor is it your use of straw man arguments and red herrings as you raised in your last post. You have made "Universal statements" condemning myself and every other member of the public education system. You have attacked a system that is admittedly flawed, but have not taken a single legitimate step or made an effort to correct that system. At the same time you have referred to me and other members of that system that are trying to correct that system as "communists", "Socialists" and my personal favorite "Useful idiots".

At the same time you used that same system when it suited you.

It wasn't a matter of you developing your views or changing your mind. It was you doing what you wanted to do when you wanted to do it.

Others and myself have given you ample opportunity to engage in meaningful discussion and you have refused. You and your little automatons have your canned responses and your blinders are firmly in place, and that is okay.

But when you spread your vile and your lies I will be one of the people standing in your way.

When you decide to act like an adult I will the one ready to listen and now that I have received my Masters degree in Education leadership, be willing to assist n making improvements.

So the ball is in your court, Stop making wild eyed fanatical claims and get to work fixing, or get out of the way.

29 posted on 05/05/2012 5:11:02 AM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga

Fundamentally, political, cultural, and religious philosophies of all types are general. While not directed at specific individuals, if the philosophy prevails it will effect individuals, sometimes profoundly.

So?....How do you manage in this world if those who espouse a political, cultural, and/or religious philosophy different from own have the audacity to write or speak about them in your presence?

If you this thin skinned then perhaps Free Republic is not the forum for you.


30 posted on 05/05/2012 5:42:13 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: verga

from own
^^^^^^^

That should read, “your own”.


31 posted on 05/05/2012 5:43:36 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: wintertime
If you this thin skinned then perhaps Free Republic is not the forum for you.

Should read either If you are this...." or using the contraction "If you're this ....."

Might be time to get your self to a public school so you can learn to write using proper English.

Now on to the the rest of your post.

Taking offense at being lumped in with a very small minority that engages malevolent behavior (that means bad in case you didn't know) is not thin skinned.

Last year there was a case of a dentist that had sex with patients when they were knocked out. Last week another dentist removed all of the teeth of an ex boyfriend. Should I lump you in both of them, or even all dentists?

The beauty of our society and our system is that if you don't like something we are free to try and change it if we can gather enough support. Or we can consume other products if we don't like a particular brand.

But you do not have the right to condemn "Tide" detergent as "Useful Idiots" when you like "Cheer" better.

On a regular basis you and your automatons marching in lock step have done that.

BTW I noticed that you didn't congratulate me on earning my third Masters degree, how typically unchristian of you.

32 posted on 05/05/2012 6:17:01 AM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga

So the ball is in your court, Stop making wild eyed fanatical claims and get to work fixing, or get out of the way.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Fixing a system built upon the foundation of godlessness, single payer socialist-entitlement, and compulsion can not be fixed.

Also....Please note that I am very careful to address the **broad** issues of godless government schooling. Although it is possible that in the past half decade or so that I may have strayed from this principle on rare occasion, my posts are NOT directed at any specific individual.

As for lying, please tell me, which of the following is not true?

**ALL** government owned and run K-12 schools in this nation are godless. Just to cooperate in the classroom the child must think and reason godlessly. How could it be otherwise?

**All** government owed and run K-12 schools in this nation are a single-payer socialist entitlement. Children who attend risk learning to be comfortable with socialist funded tuition free schooling. Hey! if the voting mob can give them tuition free schooling, why not use the power of the voting mob to get lots of free stuff from their fellow citizens?

** All** government owned and run K-12 school districts are compulsory for all those children whose parents can not ransom them.

Taxpayers are under police threat to pay the taxes that support this system of godless government schools .

( Not proof read.)


33 posted on 05/05/2012 1:12:02 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: wintertime
Also....Please note that I am very careful to address the **broad** issues of godless government schooling. Although it is possible that in the past half decade or so that I may have strayed from this principle on rare occasion, my posts are NOT directed at any specific individual.

You paint in broad strokes to create straw man arguments.

And you have done nothing (by your own repeated admission) To fix the system. Instead you sit in front of the computer making these broad generalizations with out dealing with specifics.

The devil is in the details. What percentage have the financial resources to home school?

What percentage of parents have the desire to home school?

What percentage of children want to be home schooled?

BTW you still have not congratulated me on receiving a third Masters degree, this one in Educational leadership/ administration.

You also have not told me what you intend to do to help me improve a system.

Now try to address real issues with real solutions instead of your straw men.

34 posted on 05/05/2012 3:17:15 PM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga
To fix the system.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Again! Godless, single-payer, socialist-entitlement, government K-12 schooling can not be fixed **because** it is godless, single-payer, socialist-entitlement and owned and run by the government.

I will not comment on education degrees, specifically or in general, because I fear you would take my comments to be personally directed at you.

As for your comments about homeschooling, I have consistently, throughout this thread mentioned private schooling together with private schooling. We don't have a well developed system of tuition-free private schooling because the government monopoly cartel has disrupted the free market and discouraged private philanthropy. ( Please remember that colleges and universities, unlike K-12 education, have endowments in the billions upon BILLIONS! ) If government had never interfered in the education market perhaps not only U.S. children would be enjoying tuition-free private schooling but also every child in the world. ( Yes, as a nation we were and are that wealthy.)

35 posted on 05/05/2012 7:01:13 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: wintertime
All you do is post rantings of opinions and offer no solutions that are practical.I do realize that it is really much easier for you to sit around and whine, but at some point you actually do have to do something if you expect change. You have yet to offer a single "fact" that you substantiate with hard cold numbers. I ask you questions that can only be answered with facts and you go off on one of your tangents.

If you can't support your opinions or answer my questions with document-able numbers then you have nothing to say.

36 posted on 05/05/2012 7:51:48 PM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga

offer no solutions that are practical.I
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There are no solutions ( practical or unpractical) that resolve the fundamental problems with socialist-entitlement, single payer, godless, government schooling because it is a socialist-entitlement, single payer, compulsory, government program.


37 posted on 05/05/2012 9:23:11 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: wintertime
There are no solutions ( practical or unpractical) that resolve the fundamental problems with socialist-entitlement, single payer, godless, government schooling because it is a socialist-entitlement, single payer, compulsory, government program.

This is cowardice at best. Burying your head in the sand while whining "Woe is me" is not the solution, It is how this mess began.

And you have done nothing (by your own repeated admission) To fix the system. Instead you sit in front of the computer making these broad generalizations with out dealing with specifics.

The devil is in the details. What percentage have the financial resources to home school?

What percentage of parents have the desire to home school?

What percentage of children want to be home schooled?

You also have not told me what you intend to do to help me improve a system.

Now try to address real issues with real solutions instead of your straw men.

Why are you refusing to anser these questions

38 posted on 05/06/2012 4:56:55 AM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga
Ok, here is a real solution:

Abolish government employee unions. They are already protected under civil service laws. That is enough.

In those states that currently have caps on the number of charters, remove these caps. Allow God-centered schools instead of restricting charters to only the religious worldview of godless.

Allow tax credits. Any individual or business who donates money to a private voucher fund, or sponsors a child would deduct the full amount from their taxes. For those who are poor, and do not directly pay income or property taxes, they would be get a reimbursement.

Allow any group of teachers at any government school to vote to turn their government school into a charter. This has already been successfully done at Green Dot schools in Los Angeles.

Gradually, reduce the amount of government involvement in education, on every level, over the next 25 years, as the private infrastructure is built and private philanthropy can assume the burden of educating our nation's children. Perhaps a once a year campaign similar to the United Way effort could be instituted, however, the funds would be directed to the private scholarship fund of the worker's choice.

Finally, currently about 3 to 5% of the nation's children are homeschooled. Homeschooling when done from the beginning, has an excellent record and, on average, homeschooled children **far** exceed institutionalized children in academic achievement. As adults, too, former homeschoolers have **far** less social pathology. These statistics can be found on the Homeschool Legal Defense Association website.

While homeschooling is the most ideal way to rear a child to adulthood, sadly, not all children can be homeschooled, for many reasons: Selfishness, materialism, health, intelligence, illiteracy, poor coping skills, lack of discipline, extreme poverty, etc. on the part of the parents. These children will need to be institutionalized for their schooling. We need orphanages, too, but no one is claiming that this is the best way to rear a child.

( Not proof read.)

39 posted on 05/06/2012 6:17:55 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: wintertime
Ok, here is a real solution:

Finally

Abolish government employee unions. They are already protected under civil service laws. That is enough.

Would you include police and firefighters in this as well, How about workers at county and State institutions such as hospitals and mental facilities. Some police and fire fighters unions provide "Hazard" insurance that are self insurance since other companies rates are to high for this.

In those states that currently have caps on the number of charters, remove these caps.

Good idea, Would these school have the option of refusing admittance to a school? or would they required to take ALL applicants on a first come first serve basis?

Allow God-centered schools instead of restricting charters to only the religious worldview of godless.

They already exist they are called parochial schools. Also you complained that at your daughter's or daughter-in-law's Catholic school she was the only one that did not support Obozo. Would these schools have to take ALL students on a first come first serve basis? Would they have to modify their curriculum to support all religious beliefs? For instance If the child of Wiccan parents applied to an evangelical school could they practice their faith?

Allow tax credits. Any individual or business who donates money to a private voucher fund, or sponsors a child would deduct the full amount from their taxes.

Good idea no disagreement.

For those who are poor, and do not directly pay income or property taxes, they would be get a reimbursement.

I disagree completely, 48% of our population does not pay federal income tax. This is enough of a "break" they are not entitled to more of my money unless I choose to give it to them.

Allow any group of teachers at any government school to vote to turn their government school into a charter. This has already been successfully done at Green Dot schools in Los Angeles.

Is this based on a simple majority or super majority? What about the teachers that don't want to work for a charter school? What about the students that don't want to attend a charter school or if their parents don't want them to? Where would they attend? How would the Charter school reimburse the county for land and building?

Gradually, reduce the amount of government involvement in education, on every level, over the next 25 years, as the private infrastructure is built and private philanthropy can assume the burden of educating our nation's children. Perhaps a once a year campaign similar to the United Way effort could be instituted, however, the funds would be directed to the private scholarship fund of the worker's choice.

Great idea, 100% agreement.

Finally, currently about 3 to 5% of the nation's children are homeschooled. Homeschooling when done from the beginning, has an excellent record and, on average, homeschooled children **far** exceed institutionalized children in academic achievement. As adults, too, former homeschoolers have **far** less social pathology. These statistics can be found on the Homeschool Legal Defense Association website.

There are three types of lies, Lies D@mn lies, and Statistics. Find and independent agency to support your numbers via a double blind study.

While homeschooling is the most ideal way to rear a child to adulthood, sadly, not all children can be homeschooled, for many reasons: Selfishness, materialism, health, intelligence, illiteracy, poor coping skills, lack of discipline, extreme poverty, etc. on the part of the parents. These children will need to be institutionalized for their schooling. We need orphanages, too, but no one is claiming that this is the best way to rear a child.

So you want to take these children from their parents and put them in an institution? Who is going to determine which students don't fit into your program? Are you going to have "Education panels" or "internment panels"? I was with you pretty much on everything until you went off the rails with this last one. Might be time to rethink this.

( Not proof read.)

There is no excuse for this.

40 posted on 05/06/2012 7:44:18 AM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: US Navy Vet

Schools are prisons for children who have commited the crime of being born.

Teachers pretend to teach, children pretend to learn, and parents pretend that the teachers are teaching and the children are learning.

The system works.


41 posted on 05/06/2012 7:50:04 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: TennTuxedo

-—I agree that the subject matter taught is liberal, but I disagree with the schools being overwhelmingly authoritarian.——

Compulsory schooling has always been about control. It’s methodology is rooted in behavioral psychology. The chalkboard lessons are merely cover.

http://johntaylorgatto.com/underground/


42 posted on 05/06/2012 7:55:10 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: robowombat

-—The latter is not new as I remember in about 1953 getting into hot water for daring to bring a box of Cracker jacks to school for morning and afternoon ‘snack’ in defiance of the ‘healthy food’ ukase that was in effect even then in spite of the crap the cafeteria served at lunch.——

Good for you! The best thing that happened in my school years was when the “troublemakers” in 6th grade organized a 5th & 6th grade lunch strike.

For three days only a handful of kids bought lunch (including me, to my everlasting shame).

Finally, the principal came down to the lunchroom and screamed (yes, screamed) at us for five minutes.

That was enough to break the strike.

I’d sure like to see the idea go viral.8-)

It’s the only way that kids can fight the power. It’s a great civics lesson.


43 posted on 05/06/2012 8:13:20 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: Gumdrop

The communist goal has always been institutionalization from birth through age 22 —implementation by degree.

Hence the government takeover of college loans on one end, and the drive for free daycare/pre-school on the other.


44 posted on 05/06/2012 8:18:04 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: wintertime

——Fixing a system built upon the foundation of godlessness, single payer socialist-entitlement, and compulsion can not be fixed.——

The system is evil in principle. Why? Because all parents are ordained/graced by God to be a child’s primary educators.

If anyone doubts this positive claim, consider it negatively. Who or what else should be a child’s primary educator?

Compulsory schooling violates this fundamental principle, and is intrinsically evil. It cannot be reformed.


45 posted on 05/06/2012 8:44:42 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: verga
Verga,

In your masters of education program did they teach you that it is impossible to do double blind education studies? If you believe it is possible how would you design the study. ( Just wondering)

As for not proof reading, I consider being on time for church reason enough not to do it. You are always welcome to entirely skip my posts if it bothers you.

As for the poor being reimbursed ( temporarily) :

**ALL** citizens, not living the life of a hermit, pay godless government school taxes. School taxes are hidden in the rents on apartments. Businesses pass on their school taxes in the form of higher prices. Did they teach that in your masters of education program?

46 posted on 05/06/2012 11:23:33 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: verga

Regarding: Institutionalize for their schooling

Children who attend government schools and much of what is considered tradition private schools are Institutionalized for their schooling.

From the Webster definition of “institution: “b : an established organization or corporation (as a bank or university) especially of a public character;

From the Webster definition of “institutionalized”: 2) : to put in the care of an institution.


47 posted on 05/06/2012 11:35:34 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: US Navy Vet

Ever since Columbine and the responses to it, I’ve sworn since that day to make sure my kids are going to private schools.


48 posted on 05/06/2012 11:43:22 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (The Republican Party is bigger than the presidency.)
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To: wintertime
As for not proof reading, I consider being on time for church reason enough not to do it. You are always welcome to entirely skip my posts if it bothers you.

Should I show you the post from the other day when you made the same note? Are you going to use the same excuse for that?

I noticed you have still not answered these questions. I realize that the answers are embarrassing for you but please try. You do know that I am like a dog with a bone and I will keep asking:

The devil is in the details.

What percentage have the financial resources to home school?

What percentage of parents have the desire to home school?

What percentage of children want to be home schooled?

You also have not told me what you intend to do to help me improve a system.

Now try to address real issues with real solutions instead of your straw men.

Why are you refusing to answer these questions?

49 posted on 05/06/2012 2:57:59 PM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: wintertime
In post 39 you said: "While homeschooling is the most ideal way to rear a child to adulthood, sadly, not all children can be homeschooled, for many reasons: Selfishness, materialism, health, intelligence, illiteracy, poor coping skills, lack of discipline, extreme poverty, etc. on the part of the parents. These children will need to be institutionalized for their schooling. We need orphanages, too, but no one is claiming that this is the best way to rear a child.

According to your criteria every child under the age of three will be in an institution. I will bet that this is over the edge and beyond the pale even for those that agree with you.

50 posted on 05/06/2012 3:02:19 PM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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