Posted on 01/29/2012 11:00:31 AM PST by RoosterRedux
Romney avoids mentioning it, but [Joseph] Smith ran for president in 1844 as an independent commander in chief of an “army of God” advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government in favor of a Mormon-ruled theocracy. Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church. He had predicted the emergence of “the one Mighty and Strong” — a leader who would “set in order the house of God” — and became the first of many prominent Mormon men to claim the mantle.
Smith’s insertion of religion into politics and his call for a “theodemocracy where God and people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” created a sensation and drew hostility from the outside world. But his candidacy was cut short when he was shot to death by an anti-Mormon vigilante mob. Out of Smith’s national political ambitions grew what would become known in Mormon circles as the “White Horse Prophecy” — a belief ingrained in Mormon culture and passed down through generations by church leaders that the day would come when the U.S. Constitution would “hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber” and the Mormon priesthood would save it.
Romney is the product of this culture. At BYU, he was idolized by fellow students and referred to, only half jokingly, as the “One Mighty and Strong.” He was the “alpha male” in the rarefied Cougar pack, according to Michael D. Moody, a BYU classmate and fellow member of the group...
(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...
I don’t like him but I will not wallow in the dirt and filth of bigotry
ALL: Seems to me that Joseph has lived a rather sheltered cultic life...Per ex-Mormon Reaganaut...not only do we have real quotes from the Ensign Mag (official Lds church mag) & official General Conference playbacks (on paper) from 1912 to 1963, but...
...many BYU staff covered this (see especially Wilkinson quotes below...Wilkinson ran BYU!)...
...Lds "proph" Ezra Taft Benson covered it in writings from him published in 1988...
...Joseph Fielding Smith and Brigham Young were Lds "prophets" prophesying this as well:
And then, of course, is this "doozy" from Gov. George Romney:
“Anyone can look at the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith... Brigham Young and others.... I have always felt that they meant that sometime the question of whether we are going to proceed on the basis of the Constitution would arise and at this point government leaders who were Mormons would be involved in answering that question.”- George Romney, interview in “A Man’s Religion and American Politics: An Interview with Governor Romney,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1967, v. 2, p. 25
Why look at that quote!
Btw, the Ludlow edited Encyclopedia of Mormonism listed below is published by the Deseret Book Co. Guess who owns the Deseret Book Co.? (That's right, the Mormon church!)...which also owns the Deseret News, which ALSO promoted this prophesy in quote below (Preston Nibley, official Lds church historian!)
See here:
“Thank God for the Constitution. And may God bless the elders of Israel that when, as President John Taylor said, ‘the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of earth and proclaiming liberty.’” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, “Jesus Christ – Gifts and Expectations, New Era, May 1975, p. 19
“CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD. The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde: I believe he said something like this—‘that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow’ and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it.” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 326
“Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, ‘The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ It will be so.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 15, July 4, 1854
“[W]hen the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon’ Elders to save it from utter destruction.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 182, February 18, 1855
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204
“Our government, the best government in the world, is crumbling to pieces. Those who have it in their hands are the ones who are destroying it. How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204, April 8, 1868
“Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’... [Then] the Elders of Israel [i.e., LDS leaders], widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
“LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would ‘hang by a thread’ and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, ‘When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth.;: - Daniel H. Ludlow, ed., Selections from Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1995, “The Church and Society,” p. 122
“The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto… [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours… and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862
“What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation.... God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” - Apostle Orson Hyde, n.d., Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 53
“Saviors of the Nation.—To escape the judgments hanging over the wicked, and find a place where they might worship God unmolested, the Latter-day Saints fled to the Rocky Mountains. Here, and here only, during the temporary isolation sought and found by them in the chambers of “the everlasting hills,” could they hope to be let alone long enough to become strong enough to accomplish their greater destiny. For in that enforced exodus and the rounding of this mountain-girt empire there was more than the surface facts reveal. If tradition can be relied upon, Joseph Smith prophesied that the Elders of Israel would save this Nation in the hour of its extremest peril. At a time when anarchy would threaten the life of the Government, and the Constitution be hanging as by a thread, the maligned and misunderstood “Mormons”—always patriotic, and necessarily so from the very genius of their religion—would stand firm upon Freedom’s rocky ramparts, and as champions of law and order, liberty and justice, call to their aid in the same grand cause kindred [p.61] spirits from every part of the nation and from every corner of the world. All this preparatory to a mighty movement that would sweep every form of evil from off the face of the land, and build the Zion of God upon the spot consecrated for its erection. This traditional utterance of their martyred Seer is deeply imbedded in the heart and hope of the ‘Mormon’ people.” - Apostle Orson F. Whitney, Saturday Night Thoughts, pp. 60-61
“... [Someday] there would be no stable government outside of the Latter-day Saints; and that it is their destiny as a people, to uphold constitutional government upon this land.”- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, v. 25, p. 123, April 3, 1881
“You will see the constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread.... A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America.... [T]he land will be left without a Supreme Government,... [Mormonism] will have gathered strength, sending out Elders to gather the honest in heart... to stand by the Constitution of the United States.... In these days... God will set up a Kingdom, never to be thrown down.... [T]he whole of America will be made the Zion of God.” - Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., May 6, 1843, in Roberts, Journal of John J. Roberts
“I shall take it as a witness that God designs to cut the thread between us and the world, when an army undertakes to make their appearance in this Territory to chastise me or to destroy my life from the earth…. I shall take a hostile movement by our enemies as evidence that it is time for the thread to be cut.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, pp. 256-257, September 20, 1857
“The present Constitution, with a few alterations of a trifling nature, is just as good as we want; and if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 324
“I expect to see the day when the Elders of Israel will protect and sustain civil and religious liberty and every Constitutional right bequeathed to us by our fathers, and spread these rights abroad in connection with the Gospel for the salvation of all nations. I shall see this whether I live or die.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 11, p. 262
“The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time “this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction” (Journal of Discourses, 7:15). It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government. If the Gentiles on this land reject the word of God and conspire to overthrow liberty and the Constitution, their doom is fixed, and they “shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant” (1 Nephi 14:6; 3 Nephi 21:11, 14, 21; D&C 84:114-15, 117). (God, Family, Country, p. 345.)
“Eleventh: In connection with attack on the United States, the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ (Journal History, Brigham Young’s Speech, July 4, 1854.)
“[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a political institution that shall hold sway over all the earth; to which all other governments will be subordinate and by which they will be dominated.” - LDS Historian and Seventy B.H. Roberts, The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180
“LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would “hang by a thread” and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, “When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men” (JD 21:8). To defend the principles of the Constitution under circumstances where the “iniquity,” or moral decay, of the people has torn it to shreds might well require wisdom at least equal to that of the men raised up to found it. In particular, it would require great insight into the relationship between freedom and virtue in a political embodiment of moral agency.” - Encyclopedia of Mormonism, v. 1, p. 1992
“We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves, what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad. When the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” - “The Historians Corner,” BYU Studies, v. 19, no. 3, pp. 391-392
“The History of the Church account is an amalgamation of the reports in the Joseph Smith Diary and the Nauvoo Neighbor. The report by Levi Richards is here published for the first time. A reminiscent account of this discourse by James Burgess contains the essential details found in the other three accounts published here, and adds that the “Constitution and Government would hang by a brittle thread.” In the month of May 1843. Several miles east of Nauvoo. The Nauvoo Legion was on parade and review. At the close of which Joseph Smith made some remarks upon our condition as a people and upon our future prospects contrasting our present condition with our past trials and persecutions by the hands of our enemies. Also upon the constitution and government of the United States stating that the time would come when the Constitution and Government would hand by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the Latter day Saints will step forth and save it. General Scott and part of his staff on the American Army was present on the occasion. I James Burgess was present and testify to the above (James Burgess Notebook, Church Archives).”- Ehat and Cook, Words of Joseph Smith, 6 May 1843 Note, p. 279
“In all the meetings that I have attended, not one word, not one prayer, has been uttered or offered up for the saving of our cause and for the restoration of peace, but on the contrary the God of the Saints has been implored to bring swift destruction on all nations, peoples, and institutions that stand in the way of the triumph of this people.” - Steven Harding, Utah governor, in Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“[Brigham] taught followers that the governments of the earth were false and should be overthrown, that God had only delegated to the priesthood the right to set up a government. God would appoint a ruler, and all persons who otherwise pretended to have authority to govern were usurpers. Young was said to have asserted that although the Constitution of the United States was a revelation, it had fulfilled its purpose – the formation of a government so that the Mormon church could be organized. According to Young, slavery had nothing to do with the present disturbances, which were in consequence of the persecution the Saints had suffered at the hands of the American people.” - Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“Brigham Young and other preachers are constantly inculcating in the minds of the crowded audiences who sit beneath their teachings every Sabbath that the United States is of no consequence, that it lies in ruins, and that the prophecy of Joseph Smith is being fulfilled to the letter. According to the prophecy, the United States as a nation is to be destroyed. That the Gentiles, as they call all persons outside of their church, will continue to fight with each other until they perish and then the Saints are to step in and quietly enjoy the possession of the land and also what is left of the ruined cities and desolated places. And that Zion is to be built up, not only in the valleys and the mountains but the great center of their power and glory is to be in Missouri where the Saints under the lead of their prophet were expelled many years ago.” - Steven Harding, Utah governor, in Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“... if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may ‘hang by a thread’ it would be because of the immense powers given tot he President and his opportunity for their abuse. Let us... resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints.” - Senator Wallace F. Bennett, Utah, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13
“I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.” - Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU President (1951-1971), BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7,)
“[LDS TV weatherman Thom Spencer] at a Republican rally broke with tradition that a journalist should remain objective and spoke out at the rally because of a prophecy by Joseph Smith, who founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints more than 150 years ago. Smith predicted that the time would come ‘when the Constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and be ready to fall into other hands, but this people, the latter-day saints, will step forth and save it.’” - “Weatherman’s Politics Cloud His Role on TV,” Seattle Times, November 24, 2000
“They tolerate everything that’s bad, and they’re intolerant of everything that’s good. Religious freedom is going to go down the drain, too. I’ve never seen it worse than this, where the Constitution literally is hanging by a thread.” - Orrin Hatch, Republican Mormon Senator of Utah, “The Doug Wright Show,” (KSL) November 9, 1999
“... the prophet Joseph Smith did make the marvelous prediction that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to some day save the Constitution of the United States.” - Preston Nibley, LDS church historian, Deseret News, December 15, 1948; quoted in The White Horse Prophecy, 1993, p. 65
“It’s a very common belief [among Mormons] that the Constitution will hang by a thread and the Church will save it.” - Jan Shipps, quoted in Warchol and Heilprin, “Mormon Myth Stalks Hatch to Presidential Race,” Salt Lake Tribune, Junly 15, 1999
“We have much in our national system that militates against the rise of a dictator. The Bill of Rights with its philosophy of individual rights against oppression is still a curb on a power-hungry President. But if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may “hang by a thread” it would be because of the immense powers given to the President and his opportunity for their abuse. Let us delve once again into the great principles of the Constitution and resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints, because without the Constitution this glorious restoration would not have taken place in this land and might not have taken place at this point in history.” - Senator Wallace F. Bennett, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13
“Our government is an organization which was to, and since has, enacted, judged and enforced law through and by legislative, judicial and executive departments. It is encumbent on the American people to steadfastly maintain the historic balance of power by the three branches of government if our political system is to be preserved. If this is not done then the thread by which it has been predicted the Constitution will hang will be clipped and our form of government will disappear. We, the American people, must not become so internationally minded as to sell our birthright for a spurious promise of world peace. The most nationally-minded people are our enemies. We must remain faithful to our pledge, regardless of charges of chauvinism, to preserve America ‘with our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.’” - Judge Joseph E. Nelson, BYU Speeches, April 24, 1963, p. 3
“I am concerned that in our worship of materialism in our country we now have an indebtedness of over $5,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. (This includes obligations for goods already delivered and services already rendered to the government, although payable in the future.) I am concerned that we have in effect abandoned the Monroe Doctrine as our safeguard for ultimate protection of this hemisphere, and that as a result we are threatened with Communism not only in Cuba but in South America and now in Africa as well. If the Constitution is to hang by a thread in this country, I want to be one to help to preserve it.” - Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, February 18, 1964, p. 9
“In my commencement address I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.” - Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7
“Now what has happened in our country during the time we have been plunging toward socialism? Are we actually at that point where the Constitution may be hanging by a single thread and we need to step in to save it?”- Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 9
“[T]here will be a complete change of government. Washington, D.C. will cease to be capital. The present national bureaucracy will have its end. The internal conflict will sweep away the current system of governments and will pave the way for the political kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom through which Jesus Christ will rule and reign.... A new government will be established among the saints and that political Kingdom of God will espouse and uphold the principles of Constitutional government.” - Duane S. Crowther, Prophetic Warnings to Modern America, 1979, pp. 315-316
Secondary Source for this post and previous post: Reaganaut: Reaganaut Post #11 on 'White Horse Prophecy' as taught by Mormon leaders throughout 20th century -- and before
Or was it the mormons that got their "twelfth imam" idea from the muslims?
Woops! Sorry...So confusing! ;^)
Awful lot of parallels between the LDS and Islam. Funny ain’t it?
Then read Mormon leaders (Lds.org, Lds publishing houses, their "prophets," "apostles," historians, elected Congressman, BYU presidents & BYU profs, etc. -- all say in their own words on the "White Horse prophesy" -- as cited in posts number 75 & 82...
Post #82 even has a quote from Gov. GEORGE Romney on the matter!
Nobody says you have to rely upon a liberal media filter for this info...Unless, of course, you don't want to believe this stuff!
Allow me to translate this for y'all: BlueCat is essentially BEGGING a poster to post a monkey graphic ('hear no evil; see no evil; ...')
He/she doesn't want to know and would prefer ignorance vs. having to deal with his/her conscience!
So, this chart below is for YOU, BlueCat!
Oh--and for those who've seen it before -- just added the second-to-the-last row quote from Lds historian and general authority B.H. Roberts -- an early Democrat elected to Congress from Utah in 1898.
Roberts was never seated by Congress. Why not? Well, ya see, the Lds church said they would start frowning upon EXTRA polygamous unions in 1890. But around 1893, Roberts took yet a third simultaneous "wife." Utah Mormon voters (at least many of them) knew that, yet voted him in, anyway.
Well, grassroots America got ahold of that info. Signed 7 MILLION sigs to 28 banners! Delivered it to Congress!
(Oh, and thanks, Reaganaut, for finding B.H. Roberts quote!)
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) | |
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney? Ya hear that Jon Huntsman?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt? Still listening, Jon?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt? What say ye Jon?) | |
| B.H. Roberts | LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! | “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180 | |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] |
Maybe he came out of The Hollow Earth
I just love linking to that thread. :-)
When you fight to keep the light of day off the cult as Bishop Romney heads to victory in the Republican Presidential primary, and his war to destroy conservatism, then you are wallowing in the dirt and filth of serving Mormonism, and liberal politics, the war on conservatives, and the loss of the Republican party.
Sho-re a funny thing 'bout that continuum of history...why, some of it just "happens" to be a bit more recent than other "measured time":
“Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’... [Then] the Elders of Israel [i.e., LDS leaders], widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Lds "Prophet" Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
“They tolerate everything that’s bad, and they’re intolerant of everything that’s good. Religious freedom is going to go down the drain, too. I’ve never seen it worse than this, where the Constitution literally is hanging by a thread.” - Orrin Hatch, Republican Mormon Senator of Utah, “The Doug Wright Show,” (KSL) November 9, 1999
“[LDS TV weatherman Thom Spencer] at a Republican rally broke with tradition that a journalist should remain objective and spoke out at the rally because of a prophecy by Joseph Smith, who founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints more than 150 years ago. Smith predicted that the time would come ‘when the Constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and be ready to fall into other hands, but this people, the latter-day saints, will step forth and save it.’” - “Weatherman’s Politics Cloud His Role on TV,” Seattle Times, November 24, 2000
Fortunately, I was already circumcised.
Well, that'll depend upon whether the Mormon "prophet" -- a guy that could be in his 80s or even 90s by 2015 or by 2020 (who knows?) -- may start "seeing things" and could announce that the Mormon jesus has returned.
And if he does that, we could have this prophesy from Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie kick in:
"Obviously the holy practice (of polygamy) will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium." (LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966 edition, see pp. 577-579 for context)
No Mormon leader (to my knowledge) has ever publicly challenged this Mormon "apostle's" prophesy.
No I am not out of my mind. You’ve made my point, which is that the media will do anything it can to demoralize us in order to keep Obama in office. They don’t care if it is Romney, Newt or Santorum, if he gets ahead. And yes, they will keep it up.
Had you read my post, you would realize that I am not a fan of Romney and will not vote for him in a primary. I fear Romney much less than I fear a second Obama term and intend to vote for him if he gets the nod.
Read before you screed.
Generally agreed. But JosephZ? You cited fairlds.org as your only reference. Fairlds.org does not speak for the LDS church. As fairlds.org says at the bottom of each of its webpages:
"All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.”
Fairlds.org FAIR instructs its apologists that their main task is not to construct rational, logical, or correct answers, but to convert those who question (more details at the site):
”Apologists must remember that their main task is to encourage others to seek a personal witness for themselves; the 'rational' part of apologetics is really a prelude to the important work of conversion."
As for the White Horse prophecy, I don't know what's involved to make it officially accepted. Elder Donald Q. Canon, Ph.D. is a retired professor of Church history and doctrine and a former associate dean of Religious Education at Brigham Young University. In 1991, Dr. Canon edited a book titled, Latter-day Prophets and the United States Constitution. You may buy a copy from the LDS's own Deseret Books, which was published by the BYU Religious Studies Center.
In the book, Dr. Canon collected and published the 487 statements made by the LDS presidents/prophets about the U.S. Constitution, its hanging by a thread, and it being saved by the LDS.
The book was edited when Ezra Taft Benson was the LDS Church president (the 13th). Benson and every one of the previous twelve LDS Church presidents made comments about the White Horse Prophecy, averaging 37.5 White Horse Prophecy references per LDS Church President, all contained in the book.
So perhaps it's never been officially accepted by the church. But the President of the Church are talking about it. Even Joseph Fielding Smith, who 'debunked' it. And the members of the Quorum of the Twelve bring it up in their General Conference talks.
Just counting the Church Presidents, in the 148 years since Joseph Smith, Jr. supposedly brought it up, Presidents of the LDS church have averaged writing or speaking it about it more frequently than once every four months. Over 148 unofficial years, that's a lot of unofficial references to something that doesn't exist.
Hey, for those pre-born Bay State victims of RomneyCare that Finny mentioned in post #49 -- dismembered at the forced taxpayers' hands of $50 Romney abortion specials -- they didn't even get a choice to "convert to Mormonism -- or die."
Historically, a LOT of Islam's victims were at least accorded the "choice" to "convert or die."
Mormon Mitt and his $50 Bay State dismembered supposedly "pro-choice" specials. Not on their lives!
So let me get this straight. If Romney get in, then you’ll vote for Obama. Is that correct?
A lot of us were as well; but we've learned.
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."
Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.
Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.
2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'
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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:
(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)
1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson "The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."
We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood. According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented. |
Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:
"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).
When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:
"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."
When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)
Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.
“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.
At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.
One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.
(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)
JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?
JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?
JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?
JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!
JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.
JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!
JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.
JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.
JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?
JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)
JESUS: That's it.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: Nah - it was right.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.
JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.
JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!
JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?
JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....
JESUS: What did you say?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.
JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.
JESUS: No...
JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?
JESUS: Nope.
JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!
JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: No; it wasn't.
JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?
JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?
JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.
JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.
JOSEPH SMITH: But....
I’m joking about converting to Mormonism!!!
You’re spot on about the $50 abortions.
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"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."
said,