Dealing with citizens legally carrying a concealed weapon

policeone.com ^ | July 26, 2010 | Ron Avery

[School of Rational Thought]

As the ‘right to carry’ spreads across the United States, many law enforcement agencies and police officers express their unease — and for some, outright alarm — at the idea of citizens carrying concealed weapons.

......

Law abiding citizens do not expect to be treated like a felon — nor should they be. They will be angry if you prone them out, spread eagle them against a wall, or take their firearm from them without just cause. Good point to remember: A little thought and common sense goes a long way here.

[Osage Orange]

Thanks...and welcome to FR!!

[OneWingedShark]

Former Army here. Though I don’t have any kills whatsoever I won’t insult your sense of honor (or morality) by saying that “it was ok because he was a combatant and you were in a war-zone.” There’s enough questionability on the morality of the US using its military as a world police-force that ‘doing your duty’ is of questionable significance.

I will however say that on the personal-moral level it was a case of self defense: he was trying to kill you. Your God-given right to life is either worthy of defending or not; I believe it is, even to the point of lethal violence.

I know that this is of little comfort, at best, but I hope that it is *some* comfort.

[EyeGuy]

“3 were for minor traffic issues in my local area, none of which resulted in citations.”

####

Do you possess perhaps a magnificient bustline? Full ruby red lips? Non-stop, swivel-ready hips? Voluptuous, undulating buttocks?

Because this middle-aged male NEVER gets off with a warning. If pulled over, they ALWAYS ticket my ass.

[TSgt]

It’s the law in Ohio.

[b9]

Sincere thanks to you, RC3.

You are a fresh reminder of what makes Free Republic worthy and relevant.

[TSgt]

Uh, no it's not, here in PA.

Good for you, perhaps I'll qualify everything from now on since it's too hard to click on my profile and see where I'm from.

[School of Rational Thought]

Interesting info on how LEOs detect CCW

The discussion over cues is what I thought people would find interesting. Also to reemphasize the mindset of CCs to think of themselves as "good guys" which may lead to inappropriate behaviour when interfacing with the government.

[OneWingedShark]

If it’s legal, police usually respect it. This sounds like ‘journoList’ liars put it out...

Do you really believe that?
Let me posit a real-life example. My state constitution states the following:

No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.

There is a state statute [NMSA 30-7-2.4] which reads as follows:

30-7-2.4. Unlawful carrying of a firearm on university premises; notice; penalty.

A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm on university premises consists of carrying a firearm on university premises except by:
     (1) a peace officer;
     (2) university security personnel;
     (3) a student, instructor or other university-authorized personnel who are engaged in army, navy, marine corps or air force reserve officer training corps programs or a state-authorized hunter safety training program;
     (4) a person conducting or participating in a university-approved program, class or other activity involving the carrying of a firearm; or
     (5) a person older than nineteen years of age on university premises in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person's or another's person or property.
B. A university shall conspicuously post notices on university premises that state that it is unlawful to carry a firearm on university premises.
C. As used in this section:
     (1) "university" means a baccalaureate degree-granting post-secondary educational institution, a community college, a branch community college, a technical-vocational institute and an area vocational school; and
     (2) "university premises" means:
          (a) the buildings and grounds of a university, including playing fields and parking areas of a university, in or on which university or university-related activities are conducted; or
          (b) any other public buildings or grounds, including playing fields and parking areas that are not university property, in or on which university-related and sanctioned activities are performed.
D. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm on university premises is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

Now, considering the above, would any state-citizen residing on campus be legally allowed to keep arms on those premises? Why or why not?
Considering the above, would it be legal for me (a citizen) to open-carry to class? Would I be legally right? Why or why not? If I were in the legal right would the probable arrest ensuing be legal? If it would not be legal would it be a violation of Conspiracy against rights?
(Technical point: a holster is a sheath-like carrying-case usu. for a gun. A carrying-case is a conveyance. Therefore open carry [in a holster] should be exempted under A-5, correct?)

[GOPJ]

You’re in my prayers, darkside - your burden is so heavy - my heart goes out to you.

[GOPJ]

I hate to sound like Obama, but your questions are “above my pay grade”. Seriously - what’s your take on this issue? I’m looking at it and it sounds like the University has the right to trump any law... is that part of your point?

[OneWingedShark]

I did not post ANY university policy though: that is a state statute... meaning that it is a STATE LAW which, as in the example of the student/citizen living in on-campus housing, is abridging the right of the Citizen to keep and bear arms.

[GOPJ]

I assume a citizen can't carry a gun into a jail during visitation ... The state probably rules on that also, right? Do you feel the state has the right to make that call?

That said, common sense tells me the more "gun free" zones that exist, the safer it is for nuts to go in and shoot up unarmed innocents. And that's a bad thing - more guns, less crime turns out to be true.

I feel safer in Florida knowing some of the armed citizens around me are NOT criminals...

[OneWingedShark]

I hate to sound like Obama, but your questions are “above my pay grade”. Seriously - what’s your take on this issue? I’m looking at it and it sounds like the University has the right to trump any law... is that part of your point?

Anyone want to help GOPJ out?

The problem:

My state constitution states the following:

Art II, Sec. 6. [Right to bear arms.]

No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.

There is a state statute [NMSA 30-7-2.4] which reads as follows:

30-7-2.4. Unlawful carrying of a firearm on university premises; notice; penalty.

A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm on university premises consists of carrying a firearm on university premises except by:
     (1) a peace officer;
     (2) university security personnel;
     (3) a student, instructor or other university-authorized personnel who are engaged in army, navy, marine corps or air force reserve officer training corps programs or a state-authorized hunter safety training program;
     (4) a person conducting or participating in a university-approved program, class or other activity involving the carrying of a firearm; or
     (5) a person older than nineteen years of age on university premises in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person's or another's person or property.
B. A university shall conspicuously post notices on university premises that state that it is unlawful to carry a firearm on university premises.
C. As used in this section:
     (1) "university" means a baccalaureate degree-granting post-secondary educational institution, a community college, a branch community college, a technical-vocational institute and an area vocational school; and
     (2) "university premises" means:
          (a) the buildings and grounds of a university, including playing fields and parking areas of a university, in or on which university or university-related activities are conducted; or
          (b) any other public buildings or grounds, including playing fields and parking areas that are not university property, in or on which university-related and sanctioned activities are performed.
D. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm on university premises is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

The Questions:

Now, considering the above, would any state-citizen residing on campus be legally allowed to keep arms on those premises? Why or why not? Considering the above, would it be legal for me (a citizen) to open-carry to class? Would I be legally right? Why or why not? If I were in the legal right would the probable arrest ensuing be legal? If it would not be legal would it be a violation of Conspiracy Against Rights? (Technical point: a holster is a sheath-like carrying-case usu. for a gun. A carrying-case is a conveyance. Therefore open carry [in a holster] should be exempted under A-5, correct?)

Sorry if the ping-list double-pings anyone.

[Bad~Rodeo]

Absolutely, add me, also you might want to include Basil

[Filo]

Good point to remember: A little thought and common sense goes a long way here.

Asking for that from cops is like asking for milk from a turnip with apologies to turnips 'cause they don't kill nearly as many innocent people as the cops do.

[OneWingedShark]

Actually my “ping-list” is “off the cuff”/one-time and never really stored.... but I’ll ping Basil to the problem.

[Filo]

And the police aren't citizens?????

No they are not.

Citizens of this nation are subject to its laws. The police are not.

[OneWingedShark]

Basil, Bad~Rodeo suggested I ping you to post #94.

[OneWingedShark]

No-one who eats a turnip is innocent!!
;)

[pallis]

I’ll let those who are better equipped at the law advise you on what to do. However, when I went to Highlands their rules regarding firearms were far more lax than Western’s, so it seems not all NM universities follow the same rules.