Black Homeowner's Claim of Self-Defense Rejected in Fatal Shooting(NY)

New York Law Journal ^ | 25 May, 2010 | Daniel Wise

[Hacklehead]

“A unanimous panel of the Appellate Division, 2nd Department, upheld the jury’s rejection of White’s defense that the shooting was justified because he believed he was defending his family from a “lynch mob.””

I can see that. There are LOTS of lynching on Long Island. Just once I would like to see a black guy get in trouble and NOT play the race card.

[Venturer]

These kids were just plain stupid.

The father was also stupid. He should have called 911.

As long as the kids on the outside were not damaging his property he really had no right to shoot them.

Dumb moves lead to disastrous results. In this case a dead kid and a father who needs to serve some time.

[MrB]

He thought his “race shield” was license to do just that.

[shezza]

They mention in the article, the four kids were overheard on 911 tapes yelling racial epithats.

Let's get our facts straight, shall we? The article actually says: "in a tape-recorded 911 call, one of the youths can be heard shouting racial slurs as he vows to avenge the victim." Which means, if one were to read it, that ONE of the youths shouted racial slurs AFTER the unarmed teen was killed. The boys came to the house asking specifically for the son to come outside and fight one of them. Sounds like a gauntlet-throw to come duke it out one-on-one over a previous encounter, and the angry mob of three friends were there to egg it on. Note that they were outside "inches away from the public street" so they weren't trying to break into the house, and they were unarmed, while the father and son were armed. It was a war of words until the father shot.

[Grizzled Bear]

I hope he goes to jail for longer than that.

I hope he wins his appeal. The four thugs were looking for trouble. They found it.

[Grizzled Bear]

Why ON EARTH would you go outside and escalate this issue and shoot the kid?

He should have gotten rid of his nasty guns years ago. Then when thugs threaten him, he could hide under the bed and hope the police arrive in time to protect him. /SARC

[driftdiver]

“why did they travel out to this kids house to challenge him to a fight”

Good question, however challenging someone to a fight does not warrant use of deadly force.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"the Father should have called “911”."

According to the article, it sounds like they did call 911. Question for you, how did you feel about the Houston Texan man shooting and killing the two illegals robbing his next door neighbor? Was that justified?

[Colvin]

Did this idiot kid get a Darwin Award?

He should have got the kids to come inside, then plugged ‘em.

[FreedomOfExpression]

The 911 call was after he shot the man. The friend was vowing to “avenge the victim.”

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"if the homeowner had been a cop, there would have never been a trial."

You got that right. Maybe a few days without pay and desk work but thats about it.

[calex59]

They mention in the article, the four kids were overheard on 911 tapes yelling racial epithats. Sounds like they did call the cops. From the article, it's hard to know what happened between then and when the cops got there. Something must have happened in order to escalate this.

Read it again, It says the 911 call was made after the shooting, not before. The guy was in the wrong. Staying in the house and calling 911 would have been the way to go. If they attempted to enter then you shoot, but not out on the street. The only thing I disagree on is the possession law, which I think is wrong. As far as the shooting goes the facts, as given in the article, do not justify the guy shooting the kid. Running your mouth isn't a life threatening offense.

[Grizzled Bear]

The article actually says: "in a tape-recorded 911 call, one of the youths can be heard shouting racial slurs as he vows to avenge the victim." Which means, if one were to read it, that ONE of the youths shouted racial slurs AFTER the unarmed teen was killed.

For some reason, that doesn't seem particularly bright. If you just saw someone shoot your buddy, would you stand there and shout racist slurs at them?

[FreedomOfExpression]

I can tell you that if I had four punks outside my house harassing me and not leaving I would definitely arm myself and call the police.

That would be prudent. What happened in this instance sounds totally different.
They called police after shooting the young man. And if he was so concerned for his safety, why was he "inches away from the public street" as the article also stated?

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Sorry, I missed that. Did not read it intently enough and pick up the part about avenging the victim. He should have armed himself and called the cops immediately. That’s where he screwed up. I can tell you this, a bunch of jutes out in the front of my house threatening my son is something I would take seriously. I would not fluff it off like you are appearing to do. The homeowner screwed up by not calling the cops.

[driftdiver]

Thats a fairly illogical response. These kids weren’t attacking the house, they weren’t a threat except to this guys ego.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Good question, however challenging someone to a fight does not warrant use of deadly force."

You are correct, but I can certainly see them feeling threatened by having these "jutes" out in front of their house. In this day and age, often fights turn into deadly force with knives etc... You have four teenagers (sound like older teens, 17 etc..) threatening and challenging your son to a fight, it's serious. This is not the 50's anymore. Nowadays, these type of things turn deadly..

[driftdiver]

‘but I can certainly see them feeling threatened by having these “jutes” out in front of their house. “

Sure thats why an appropriate response would be to call 911 and then are yourself in case the threat was escalated.

“You have four teenagers (sound like older teens, 17 etc..) threatening and challenging your son to a fight, it’s serious. “

Sure, a serious ass whoopin. Don’t know the law there but here in Florida “I’m gonna kick your butt” is not justification for use of deadly force. Especially when those kids did not have any weapons.

These kids were not in the house and were not attempting to get into the house.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Read it again, It says the 911 call was made after the shooting, not before."

It doesn't say that exactly. It says on the 911 call one of the kids can be heard yelling racial epithats and vowing to avenge the victim. I didn't pick up on the vowing to avenge the victim part in my first read. My bad. However, 4 teenage youths I don't know out in front of my house and challenging my son to a fight and who knows what else they were saying, I would feel threatened and I would arm myself. He screwed up by shooting them in the street and not calling the cops first. These 4 kids can share some of the blame for the shooting also.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Especially when those kids did not have any weapons."

Put yourself in the homeowners position. He doesn't know they don't have any weapons. He doesn't know they don't have knives are even small pistols hidden away on their person somewhere. I doubt they would announce these things during the altercation. If I brandished a firearm (as he most assuredly did) and they didn't back off, thats a little scary in of itself. That tells me that these kids are really stupid (apparently they were) or they are in fact armed.

I agree he should have called 911. But these kids created a serious situation and they are responsible for their friends death also. I don't trust a bunch of unknown 17 year olds aren't armed anymore. I wouldn't assume that.