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To: Question_Assumptions
Immigrants and minority voters vote Democrat, in large part (and I know this because they’ve told me) because of the sort of blanket anti-minority and anti-immigrant sentiments that one can see expressed here and other right-wing web sites, on some right-wing talk radio stations, and by some right-wing politicians.

I suggest you read your history. Long before there was a Jesse Helms or a right wing web site, immigrants voted Dem or socialist. Much of it has to do with how the immigrants viewed the role of government whether they were Irish or Jews from Eastern Europe or Italians.

The Democrats offer immigrants services and benefits from a paternalistic government, something many of the immigrants experienced in their home countries. The same applies to today's immigrants. They are in favor of universal health care, national pensions, and big government.

A lot of minorities and immigrants are socially conservative and even fully conservative and I have black friends who vote Republican. But if we want larger numbers, we’ve got to knock off letting the snide and bigoted remarks pass as normal discourse on the right.

I can only speak for myself. What have I said that was snide or bigoted? As for this mythical assumption that many minorities are socially conservative, the facts say otherwise. The out of wedlock birthrates for Hispanics is 50% topped only by the black rate of 68%.

I also dispute your generalization that snide and bigoted remarks are part of the normal discourse on the right. This is the Dem caricature.

118 posted on 05/28/2009 6:14:56 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
I suggest you read your history. Long before there was a Jesse Helms or a right wing web site, immigrants voted Dem or socialist. Much of it has to do with how the immigrants viewed the role of government whether they were Irish or Jews from Eastern Europe or Italians.

The Democrats and Republicans of today are not the Democrats and Republicans of 50, 100, or 150 years ago. The parties have changed quite a bit over time. A large part of why immigrants voted for Democrats in the past was machine politics and patronage jobs, not only people like Boss Tweed but Frank "I am the Law" Hague. I have family that lived in Hague's Jersey City and they know he was a crook but he also maintained law and order and seemed to take care of people. Before Roosevelt, that sort of stuff was primarily local.

The Democrats offer immigrants services and benefits from a paternalistic government, something many of the immigrants experienced in their home countries. The same applies to today's immigrants. They are in favor of universal health care, national pensions, and big government.

Earlier waves of immigrants in the period you mentioned a moment ago were, for the most part, not fleeing countries with helpful paternalistic governments that benefitted them. They were often trying to get out and start over.

I can only speak for myself. What have I said that was snide or bigoted? As for this mythical assumption that many minorities are socially conservative, the facts say otherwise. The out of wedlock birthrates for Hispanics is 50% topped only by the black rate of 68%.

Not you in particular but look at the thread. And sometimes it's not intentional but simply sends the wrong message. For example, I understand why some conservatives hold Randy Weaver up as an example but a white supremacist is not the best poster child if you want to convince minorities you aren't a bigot.

I also dispute your generalization that snide and bigoted remarks are part of the normal discourse on the right. This is the Dem caricature.

I don't think they are normal but I think they happen and I think they get tolerated here a lot more than they used to. And it only takes one drop of crap to spoil the soup. Best to keep it as far away as possible.

125 posted on 05/28/2009 7:52:48 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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