Thomas Breaks Tradition: Forces Supreme Court to Look at Obama Citizenship Case

THE AFRO-AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS ^ | 12/3/08 | James Wright, AFRO Staff Reporter

[Windflier]

Maybe Donofrio was thinking Thomas didn't like what 0bama had to say about him at Saddleback.

It's tempting to think that, but I think that Justice Thomas is looking at the larger implications first and foremost.

But, wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if Justice Thomas is directly responsible for throwing Obummer back on the street where he belongs?

I'll bet the irony of this isn't being lost on Barry at this very moment.

[twitch] - [twitch] - [twitch]...

[Windflier]

A comma has been added after the word "States."

Damn, you're good!

[thesetruths]

But it CAN be changed through ammendment.

[HarleyLady27]

I like the way you think!!!

[Windflier]

By the way, this case cannot win. I’m pretty sure it’s solid tradition for all children born on U.S. soil, regardless of dual citizenship, to be considered U.S. citizens at birth.

You're correct about the automatic granting of US citizenship, but that's not what this case is about. It's about Natural Born Citizenship

There is a great deal of difference. Only a Natural Born Citizen can become President. For that, you have to be born on US soil, to two US parents.

So yes, the case IS going somewhere. Justice Thomas would not have taken it otherwise.

[Chunga]

Only a Natural Born Citizen can become President. For that, you have to be born on US soil, to two US parents.

Where did you get your definition of Natural Born Citizen?

[Bronwynn]

I found this at http://grou.ps/zapem that’s been covering the Donofrio v. Wells case from NJ that has now made it to the United States Supreme Court. They will decide on 12/5 if they intend to hear the case against McCain, Obama and Calero as being ineligible for the POTUS per the US Constitution.

Apparently they’re having a vigil at the courthouse that on friday. I doubt it will be on the news though. None of this has been. Well, the Star Ledger did want an interview with Donofrio. I haven’t heard anything about that yet. Will check. Here’s the link for the vigil.

http://www.freedommarch.org/Volunteer.html#SCOTUS

Pass it on.

[Windflier]

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

Don't cherry pick the language of the Constitution.

The children of illegal aliens are most certainly NOT "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", and are NOT US citizens by circumstance of birth on American soil.

[BP2]

What?? You mean Barack is not Constitutionally-qualified to be President?

That's not fair!!!

[Windflier]

You're correct about the automatic granting of US citizenship...

Little correction here, to my statement above.

US citizenship it's not actually "automatic", but it is true that it is being given to children born of illegal aliens. This is entirely due to mis-interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

[calenel]

For the gazillionth time, ‘natural born’ is defined as ‘having a status or condition from birth’ and nowhere in US Law or the Constitution is it redefined. It doesn’t matter if Obama had or has citizenships in a hundred other countries, so long as he had US citizenship at birth. While multi citizenship might be undesirable it is not a Constitutional disqualifier. There is no ‘citizen at birth but not natural born’ class of citizen because ‘citizen at birth’ or ‘having citizenship at birth’ is the same as ‘natural born citizen’. The term ‘natural born’ came into the language 200 years before the COTUS was written. If another definition had been created by the time the COTUS was written or even shortly thereafter, you can be certain it would have made it into the dictionary by now, another 200 years down the road.

[Windflier]

Where did you get your definition of Natural Born Citizen?

Sorry that I can't cite the exact source, but one of our legal eagles posted data about this definition, with supporting US historical references today sometime. It was on one of the bc threads.

[Bronwynn]

Audrey Singer has to be the dumbest rock in the pile.

No one is arguing that Obama may or may not be a “citizen”. Donofrio is saying that McCain, Obama and Calero are ALL not “natural born citizens”.

Big difference there ya idiot intellectual!

[BP2]

What's also true is that Donofrio can now prove by case law that if a person gains US Citizenship via "citizenship by statute," like Obama did, by default, that person CANNOT be a "natural born citizen."

That is fact and will probably disqualify McCain too, who was born in Panama.

[Bronwynn]

By the way, ladies and gentlemen, ABC twisted this story too, copying only parts from what the OP posted.

Have at it, you can comment on this one. It wasn’t written by MSNBC where they only take comments they like: http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=6839c2d7-0ecc-4319-b732-ebef749a71b1

[Cvengr]

I wonder how many other candidates might have campaigned for the office had merely citizenship been the minimal requirement. The present Governor of California comes to mind.

[Bronwynn]

I don’t if you’ve seen this article, but this is proof that Obama and McCain KNEW, back in April, they weren’t natural born citizens. Check this one out. They passed a Senate resolution on it! A non-binding one, but you can see where they were heading to go, definitely:

http://grou.ps/zapem/wiki/23460

[Windflier]

There is no ‘citizen at birth but not natural born’ class of citizen because ‘citizen at birth’ or ‘having citizenship at birth’ is the same as ‘natural born citizen’.

I encourage you to keep bringing this interpretation of Natural Born citizenship up to the group. I'm not educated sufficiently on the historical definitions of the phrase, or the exact references to it by The Founders, but there are some folks on the board who are very well versed in this who might have a lively conversation with you about it.

From what I've been able to gather in my readings on the subject, the Framers of the Constitution wanted to ensure that the office of President was closed to any who did not have a complete and "natural" affinity and loyalty to this country, and no other, either through location of birth, or through parentage. It was considered that only a person born on US soil, to two American parents would have a natural, un-divided loyalty to America.

So goes the theory behind the construction of that phrasing.

[calenel]

"If you’re born in the United States, you are a citizen of the US. Period."

Unless you are not 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' which applies to only four or so categories of people:

• Children of diplomats, exempted by treaty
• Children born to Indians and subject to Tribal law, again, by treaty
• Children of hostile occupying forces (La Raza?)
• Transient persons such as those on ships traversing US Territorial waters or in planes in US airspace.

Everybody else is 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the US, e.g. no diplomatic immunity

[Chet 99]

Schwarzenegger is a naturalized citizen.

You are either a natural born citizen, naturalized citizen, or not a citizen at all.

Neither McCain nor Obama have gone through the naturalization process. Thus, if they are not natural born citizens, they are in fact ILLEGAL ALIENS.