Posted on 12/03/2008 11:43:31 PM PST by BP2
Well said John Valentine!!!!
The same holds true for any child born to American citizen parents overseas. It is not confined to the Armed Forces.
...by SCOTUS requiring the NJ SoS to present whatever documentation (if any) it used to vet the candidates. The COLB that has been published seems to be no better than a note from his mother so I doubt SCOTUS will accept that as proof now or in the future. This is what I believe will lead us back to the long form BC.
BTW, I'm not a lawyer and I have never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express!
Actually I post on these threads for the benefit of lurkers or other interested parties so they don't go away thinking all of FR are a rabid pack of lunatics, many who now tout a document, our Constitution, that they obviously never once read. Though now, because some hack lawyer wants to become famous the Constitution is the hot topic with the boys gathering outside WaWa or AllParts stores.
“What is the definition of natural born? There are three ways to become a US citizen, birth thru blood, jus sanguinis; birth on US soil, jus solis; and naturalization. The first two are, IMO, natural born. If Obama was born in the US, he is a natural born US citizen. If he was born in Kenya, then he has a problem.
Birth on US soil=native-born. But this is NOT, as some here seem to think, equivalent to “natural born.” If the framers had wanted to simply tie eligibility to being native-born, they would have used that term. In reality, at the time of the Constitution, native-born children were NOT automatically citizens. http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined.html
Whoever suggested natural born is restricted to a person who is a US citizen both jus sanguis and jus solis has a good idea. But if that were the intent of the framers it’s hard to understand why the first Immigration statute labelled those born abroad of 2 US citzens “natural born.” Admittedly, this was repealed 5 years later with identical language that still accorded such individuals automatic citizenship, but removed the term “natural born.” The point is IF the framers believed the jus sanguis + jus solis definition of natural born, this statute would not make sense.
However, this does not preclude viewing “natural born” as being restricted to individuals whose allegiance is undivided.
So what's your point? He's disqualified because of a C Section? Stop wasting our time posting this crap. Never going to happen.
“The same holds true for any child born to American citizen parents overseas. “
Except there are conditions about those non-military parents and none on military parents on orders.
No person, (except a natural born citizen), (or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution), shall be eligible to the office of President
If I am understanding this correctly, a Natural born citizen, is a person who was born on U.S. soil by parents who both were born on U.S. soil.
A U.S. citizen who was born on U.S. soil but one of his parents was born in another country could have become President only during the time that the Constitution was being adopted. After the Constitution was adopted, this person would not be qulified. And the reason he would not qualify is 1) He doesn’t fall under the definition of a Natural Born citizen and 2). He was not a U.S. citizen during the period when the Constitution was being adopted.
Is this correct?
Case 1: The Case Perkins v. ELG, 307 U.S> 325 (1939) this expands and refers on the U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark's case definition of nationality.
Miss Elg was born in Brooklyn, NY on October 2, 1907. Her parents who were natives of Sweden emigrated to the United States sometime prior to 1906 and her father was naturalized here in that year. Perkins v. Elg 307 U.S. 325, 327 (1939)
Elg is a Citizen of the United States. Perkins v Elg, 307 U.S. 325, 328 (1939) Citizenship Matrix = 1 foreigner parent (Sweden) and 1 U.S. citizen parent (naturalized by US statute) and born in Brooklyn, NY.
Case 2: The facts were these: One Steinkauler, a Prussian subject by birth, emigrated to the United States in 1848, was naturalized in 1854, and in the following year had a son who was born in St. Louis. Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325, 330 (1939).
Young Steinkauler is a native-born American citizen. Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325, 330 (1939). Citizenship Matrix = 2 US Citizen parents (at least one naturalized by US statute) AND Born in St. Louis, MO (USA)
THANKS -- IT DOES HELP !!!
No, what I am saying is that actual practice will have a major impact on whatever ruling, if any, SCOTUS makes in this case. Our current laws imbue anyone born on our soil, except for the children born to accredited diplomats, full citizens of this country entitled to all of the rights and privileges that entails. You may consider the 14th amendment to be “misread,” but it is being misread by our own government.
It has not been read that way by SCOTUS. They may address it now.
Bump to ya’
Aside from the current contretemps over whether Obama is eligible for the Presidency or not, this is a distinction without a difference. Can you cite any differences between the citizenship of a native born and natural born citizen under existing law and practice? How is birthright citizenship, jus solis, any different from jus sanguinis citizenship under law?
The point is IF the framers believed the jus sanguis + jus solis definition of natural born, this statute would not make sense.
It makes sense because we were a new nation whose residents were formerly citizens of other countries. For very real and practical reasons, we recognized two forms of natural born citizenship, jus sanguinis and jus solis. They are different for very obvious reasons.
“pretty sure” and “solid tradtion” do not apply when interpreting the Constitution.
See my post #164.
Good Point!!!!
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