Albanians form "movement for unification"

B92 ^ | May 17, 2008 | Staff

[Bokababe]

PRIŠTINA -- A movement whose goal is the unification of "all Albanian territories" was founded in Priština today.

The organization, dubbed Movement for Unification, also appointed Avni Klinaku as president.

"The main goal of this party is the unification of Albanian territories into one country and the resolution of the social problems of the citizens of Kosovo," Klinaku told the founding assembly.

Klinaku was also the founder of the National Movement for the Liberation of Kosovo, an organization which was one of the founders of the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army, KLA.

[Jacob Kell]

Oh please. I’m no mindreader, but I doubt Serbs want more war. Plus, Milosevic was a hoodlum, but he was no true believer when it came to a Greater Serbia. He was probably more an opportunist than anything, I think.

[Jacob Kell]

>Ping me when Albania starts 4 wars for the “Great Albania” or when the K-Government supports it.

That doesn’t mean that some group of terrorists, even if just a handful of kooks, can’t try to start some trouble.

[Jacob Kell]

>Well, you got your headline. Congratulations. The largest party in Serbia is the...

If you’re referring to the Radical Party, I suspect that the reason why they have support is because they’re seen as the ones who won’t accept the loss of Kosovo, which is considered to be of historical significance.

[old-and-old]

>> a handful of kooks

I draw the line when it is government sponsored or encouraged. Those kooks will be squashed by UMNIK if they grab arms. Looks like there is virtually no support for this, despite a highway being built to unit Kosovo with Albania.
"Albania and Kosovo united in EU" http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=16&nav_id=47749
Kosovo is at the mercy of EU and so is Albania who is doing everything hoping to get in. This is a nice try for a few more days of Serb "Albanian Islamists will slit the throats of Albanian Christians" propaganda since "Albanians" have formed this group.

Compare it to this:

He once boasted on television that his fighters would gouge out Croatian eyeballs with rusty shoehorns, but Vojislav Seselj, one of Serbia’s most notorious paramilitary leaders, finally faces justice when his trial begins today at the UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague.

Mr Seselj, 52, is accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity against non-Serbs during the Croatian and Bosnian wars of 1991-95. His Chetnik militia, named after the royalist Serbian guerrillas in the Second World War, was notorious for brutality, giving no quarter to civilians. Many in it were criminals released from prison by Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian President, and were often drunk on the battlefield.

Mr Seselj’s men have laid down their arms but their ideology lives on in his extreme-nationalist Serbian Radical Party, which holds 82 seats in the 250-seat Serbian parliament and is polling some 30 per cent support with elections due in January.

Anton Nikiforov, spokesman for the prosecution at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY), said: “This is one of the most significant trials from the prosecution’s perspective. It deals with an important leader of a Serbian political party, who is known for his extremist views. Seselj led a paramilitary unit which committed crimes in both Bosnia and Croatia.”

Born in Sarajevo, Mr Seselj claimed during the communist era that Bosnia and Montenegro were “invented” nations that had no right to exist. This earned him almost two years in prison in Zenica, Bosnia. His experiences there gave him a visceral loathing of Croats and Muslims. The late Warren Zimmerman, former US Ambassador to Yugoslavia, described him as “a psychopathic bully”.

The trial could reveal important details about the role of the Milosevic regime and the Serbian state in the bloody ethnic cleansing in Croatia and Bosnia. Mr Seselj told the author Tim Judah: “Milosevic organised everything. We gathered the volunteers and he gave us a special barracks, Bubanj Potok, all our uniforms, arms, military technology and buses. His key people were the commanders. Nothing could happen on the Serbian side without Milosevic’s orders or knowledge.” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article650807.ece

Do you want to know his solution to the Albanians, Croats and Bosniaks? Why don't they change the party platform if they changed their mind and all of the sudden are nice? Now they get 30%, but if the economy was thriving, what percentage would they get?

So you can theorize ifs and buts, or you could look at the reality. The sooner Serbs realize what they have done and realize that they are nothing special, the better it is for them. Denial will only prolong their misery and now they are caged by NATO and /or heavily armed countries.

[Straight Vermonter]

Please don’t be dense. Clinton secured Kosovo for the Muslim Albanians, with American military power. Now they are independent of Serbia (thanks Bush) and will try to attach themselves to Albania. I have no doubt that there will be further efforts to secure a greater Albania.

[Bokababe]

"Please don’t be dense. Clinton secured Kosovo for the Muslim Albanians, with American military power. Now they are independent of Serbia (thanks Bush) and will try to attach themselves to Albania. I have no doubt that there will be further efforts to secure a greater Albania."

The Albanians themselves tell us what their plans are. The Albanian American Civic League, who was so successful in dragging the US into meeting its needs in securing Kosovo for Albanians, has sections on its website dedicated to "the struggle of Albanians" in four more countries in that neighborhood -- Macedonia, Greece, Montenegro, and the Presevo Valley of Serbia. It's just a matter of time.

And if they succeed, there will be a new "Muslim Corridor" stretching from Northern Greece up to Bosnia, and West to East, from the Adriatic over to Bulgaria (which has its own Muslims and is next-door to Turkey & the Black Sea).

Ah, but Albanians are supposed to be "peace-loving, secular Muslims" -- uh-huh.....

[old-and-old]

>> who was so successful in dragging the US into meeting its needs in securing Kosovo for Albanians

Actually Serbs, the "peaceful, and the model for Christianity" did that. US finally had enough after seeing the concentration camps, mass killings and rapes in Bosnia where no one intervened (oh, I know they're all "hoaxes").

Kosovo belongs to it's inhabitants, Serbia apparently wanted to treat Albanians who made 80-90% of the population like their "Negroes" and ideally get rid of them, one way or another. George Bush warned Slobo a long time ago, December 25, 1992 to be exact. This was followed by Clinton and W Bush. Hardly a decision made at random.

"I repeatedly reaffirmed the Christmas warning of the Bush administration on instructions, as did the rest of the Clinton administration. His reaction was that Kosovo is an internal matter. We said we accept the fact that Kosovo is inside the Yugoslav national boundary, but that does not give you the right to squash its people.

The Christmas warning basically suggests that the US would take unilateral action, that Kosovo is the red line. The question of the use of force comes up in the spring of 1998. What's the decision on that? What's Washington thinking about that, and what are you advising?

My advice and position on Kosovo, from the beginning of my involvement in the spring of 1998 on, was basically that the Serbs and the Albanians would never be able to settle their problems unless there was an outside international security presence on the ground. The hatred between Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo was far, far greater than any of the so-called ethnic hatreds of Bosnia, which had been grossly exaggerated by the crooks, and the mafioso demagogues in the ethnic communities of Bosnia. This was the real thing in Kosovo between Albanians and the Serbs. Different cultures, different languages, and different histories, but a common obsession with the same sacred soil. And, therefore, it was going to be essential for us to recognize that the situation would require an outside involvement."

"Milosevic said to me at one point, "Are you crazy enough to bomb us over these issues we're talking about in that lousy little Kosovo?" And I said, "You bet, we're just crazy enough to do it." . . .

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kosovo/interviews/holbrooke.html

[Bokababe]

So, do they pay you by the word to post so much useless nonsense, old mold?

In case you didn’t notice, the World Court found Serbia innocent of what happened in Bosnia. The two are unrelated.

And by the way, where were those “100,000 dead or missing Kosovars”? They were neither dead nor missing, it was all lies to get the US to intervene to fight their battles for them, costing us literally $Billions.

“Sovereignty” is to a country what “private property” is to an individual.

If I hold the title to an apartment building, it doesn’t matter if a thousand renters live there, the property doesn’t belong to the renters just because they are the primary “inhabitants”. It belongs to me, because I paid for the apartment building and I hold the title — it’s my “private property”.

Likewise, it doesn’t matter if the primary inhabitants of Kosovo are Albanians, it isn’t their private property, because it is sovereign Serbia. To argue otherwise is to argue “for Socialism & the rights of the masses”, and against Conservatism.

[SQUID]

The EU and NATO is very predictable politically. What they accuse you of is what they intend on doing themselves.

They talked about ultra nationalism in Serbia and yet they used that to destroy Yugoslavia. They talked about Greater Serbian and yet Croatia and now Albania enjoy and will enjoy a larger territory than they had previously. They talked about ethic cleansing being done by Serbs and yet 300,000 Serbs were cleansed from the Karjina region by NATO.

EU and NATO act as if they are so enlightened and civilized but they are not more civilized than the cheapest whore.

This is the same old shite. The scum in the EU have made this possible by design for their own greedy interests.

There is no wrong and right. There is just power and might. Germany the only thing Germany has changed since Hitler is the uniform and the banner. Aside from that, their interests are the same and America is being led by the nose because we have no leadership and will not have leadership for a long time to come.

[Diocletian]

Didn't Adolf Hitler make a similar demand of German-speaking territories?

As did the Serbs. The Albanians are just apeing Serbian nationalists here.

[Diocletian]

I guess you skipped over the part where the Serbs tried to do the same thing for themselves.

[Diocletian]

They talked about Greater Serbian and yet Croatia and now Albania enjoy and will enjoy a larger territory than they had previously. They talked about ethic cleansing being done by Serbs and yet 300,000 Serbs were cleansed from the Karjina region by NATO.

Your stupidity knows no bounds. Croatia's borders were drawn up in 1945 in which Croatia lost land to Serbia and Bosnia-Hercegovina. Croatia hasn't gained land. Nor were the Serbs of the pretend "Krajina" cleansed since they were ordered out by their own administration.

[SQUID]

Ah, I knew I would hook this sick fish. Here comes the twisted Nazi Croat point of view.

What makes you certifiably mentally ill is that you believe in your own fairytale that you have cooked up through your Croat news papers. I'm sure you'll find some good care when the times comes.

I would love to show you footage of Krajina. I remember the U’s that were painted on Serb homes by Croat forces and destroyed by Croat forces. I wonder what the U stands for? It also seems to be accompanied by the Nazi symbol you have grown up with and admired for so long I'm sure. But wait, that doesn't go along with the Nazi Croat propaganda of the poor Croat victim and their long hard struggle from the imaginary oppression by those evil Serbs. Pavelic must have been your Martin Luther King Jr.?

[old-and-old]

>> In case you didn’t notice, the World Court found Serbia innocent of what happened in Bosnia.

lie lie lie and someone already pointed this out to you. Serbia was not found "innocent" but the court could not find any documents to back the claim that they SERBIA knew that they supplies sent to SERBS in Bosnia was used to kill, rape and hold the Non-Serbs in concentration camps. The court ruled that SERBS committed genocide in Bosnia and Serbs do hold quite a few "since WWII" records. No need to disown anyone, they're yours. Serbia was smart to hide the documents

Serbia's darkest pages hidden from genocide court

THE HAGUE: In the spring of 2003, boxes with hundreds of documents arrived at the Yugoslav war crimes tribunal in The Hague containing hundreds of pages marked "Defense. State secret. Strictly confidential." The cache contained minutes of wartime meetings of Yugoslav political and military leaders, including Slobodan Milosevic, and promised the best inside view yet of Serbia's role in the Bosnian war of 1992-95.

But there was a catch. Serbia, the heir to Yugoslavia, obtained court permission to keep parts of the archives out of the public eye, citing national security. Its lawyers blacked out many sensitive - those who have seen them say incriminating - pages. Judges and lawyers at the war crimes tribunal could see the censored material, but it was barred from the court's public records.

Now, lawyers and others who were involved in Serbia's bid for secrecy say that, at the time, Belgrade made its true objective clear: to keep the full military archives from another court, the International Court of Justice, nearby. And they say Belgrade's goal was achieved in February, when that court, dealing with Bosnia's lawsuit against Serbia, declared Serbia not guilty of genocide, and absolved it from paying potentially enormous war damages.

Lawyers interviewed in The Hague and Belgrade said that the outcome might well have been different had the Court of Justice pressed for access to the uncensored archives. Legal scholars and human rights groups say that it is deeply troubling that the judges did not subpoena the documents directly from Serbia.

"It's a question that nags loudly," Diane Orentlicher, a law professor at American University in Washington, said recently in The Hague. "Why didn't the court request the full documents? The fact that they were blacked out clearly implies these passages would have made a difference."

The ruling - 170 pages long - was in many ways meticulous, and acknowledged that the 15 judges had not seen the censored military archives. But it did not say why the court did not order Serbia to provide them.

Two of the judges themselves criticized that failure, in strongly worded dissents. One, the court's vice president, Awn Shawkat Al-Khasawneh of Jordan, wrote that "regrettably the court failed to act," adding, "It is a reasonable expectation that those documents would have shed light on the central questions."

At one point, the court rebuffed a Bosnian request that it demand the full documents, and said ample evidence was already available in tribunal records.

As part of its ruling, the court said that the 1995 massacre at the supposed safe haven of Srebrenica - when in nearly 8,000 unarmed Muslim men and boys were killed - was an act of genocide committed by Bosnian Serb forces, but that it lacked proof that these forces were acting under the "direction" or "effective control" of Serbia.

The ruling raised some eyebrows because aspects of Serbian military involvement are already known from records of earlier trials at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. In late 1993, for instance, more than 1,800 officers and noncommissioned men from the Yugoslav Army were serving in the Bosnian Serb Army, and were deployed, paid, promoted or retired by Belgrade. These and many other men, including top generals, tribunal records showed, were given dual identities, and to handle this, Belgrade created the so-called 30th Personnel Center of the General Staff, a secret office for dealing with the officers listed on active duty in both armies.

The court took note of that information, but said that Belgrade's "substantial support" did not automatically make the Bosnian Serb Army a Serbian agent.

But lawyers who have seen the archives and further secret personnel files say than they address Serbian control and direction even more directly, revealing in new and vivid detail how Belgrade financed and supplied the war in Bosnia, and how the Bosnian Serb Army, though officially separate after 1992, remained virtually an extension of the Yugoslav Army.

They said the archives showed that Serbian forces, including secret police, played a role in the takeover of Srebrenica and in the preparation of the massacre there.

The story of the blacked-out documents, pieced together from more than 20 interviews with lawyers and court officials and from public records, offers rare insight into secret proceedings in The Hague where hearings, though usually public, can turn into closed sessions and deals often happen behind closed doors.

It took the tribunal prosecutors two years of talks, court orders and diplomatic pressure for the Belgrade government to hand over the documents, the much-coveted minutes of the Supreme Defense Council, created in 1992 when Serb-dominated Yugoslavia was fighting for more land for Serbs outside its borders in Croatia and Bosnia.

More here... http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/08/news/serbia.php

---

>> And by the way, where were those “100,000 dead or missing Kosovars”? They were neither dead nor missing, it was all lies to get the US to intervene to fight their battles for them, costing us literally $Billions.

Had Milosevic nto thrown out all the journos we might have gotten better info. Last time when non-Serb men and women were separated they didn't end up that good in Arkan and Chetnik hands:

"... were beaten with iron bars and wooden poles, some of them killed by a pistol shot, some of them taken to the so-called investigation, into a room full of corpses and forced to tramp on the dead bodies. Some were executed in front of the school...bodies of those killed were butchered, with nose, ears, genitals cut off, or crosses being cut into them. Those witnesses also claim that while that was being done, they were forced to sing Chetnik songs. " (I left out the more graphic ones when fathers were forced to have sex with their sons out) More here

So if you want a medal for killing only 10,000 to 12,000 Albanians, or changing your mind int he middle, I am out of medals.

Here are some of them, coming for a 3 month "picnic" as Milosevic said. See it till the end. They managed to get their women to safety before Serb soldiers got them. Lucky despite the burned and looted houses from "Christian" Serbs.

---

>> Likewise, it doesn’t matter if the primary inhabitants of Kosovo are Albanians, it isn’t their private property, because it is sovereign Serbia. To argue otherwise is to argue “for Socialism & the rights of the masses”, and against Conservatism.

How nice of you to let the Albanians live in "your land." That "title" you got it in early 1900's in land with 75-80% Albanians (thanks to Russia and by starting a few wars) will be solved soon. You will get a lesson in International Politics and human rights. And we have seen your "conservative" and "Christian" values. No need to lecture us.

PLEASE stop posting misleading information or outright lies. You will be called on them. Thank you.

[old-and-old]

and just wanted to remind you that the British Crown no longer holds the "title" here in US. Ever wondered why?

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

— Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

....and they have a list of complaints. Albanians have about 150 times as many against you. Your dreams of having a colony and empire are over. It started with Kosovo and it ended with them. You picked on the wrong people and got too greedy with the rest. Now see if you ask Macedonia for a loan to make ends meet. I guess you aren't as good as your claim.

[Bokababe]

"Serbia was not found "innocent" but the court could not find any documents to back the claim that they SERBIA knew that they supplies sent to SERBS in Bosnia was used to kill, rape and hold the Non-Serbs in concentration camps....."

So you are contradicting yourself -- unless you are saying that they did convict Serbia "without evidence", in which case you are flat out lying.

"And by the way, where were those “100,000 dead or missing Kosovars”? They were neither dead nor missing, it was all lies to get the US to intervene to fight their battles for them, costing us literally $Billions."

And I stand by that statement, because the info you posted, sans your editorializing, was about BOSNIA and not Kosovo.

"How nice of you to let the Albanians live in "your land." That "title" you got it in early 1900's in land with 75-80% Albanians (thanks to Russia and by starting a few wars) will be solved soon. You will get a lesson in International Politics and human rights. And we have seen your "conservative" and "Christian" values. No need to lecture us."

You just got pissed off & tipped you your hand there, old mold.

I am American and of Montenegrin descent, not from Serbia, nor even of Serbian descent. And when I asked you what you were, you himmed & hawed and said that you were "AN AMERICAN" and nothing else. But you just referred to the Albanians as "WE" and to "Christian values" as NOT yours.

You are an Albanian Muslim, pretending to be "an ordinary American", old mold. And that means that you have been doing what since you have been here? Come on now, you can spell it, starts with an "L"!

[old-and-old]

hahahha. 99% of your posts are for Serbs, who are you kidding? Read your posts when you bragged about one of you ancestors came up with the Mountain Wreath.

“In the poem, the Muslims repeatedly plead for coexistence. One example:

Small enough is this our land,
Yet two faiths there still may be
As in one bowl soups may agree
Let us still as brothers live.

However, these pleas for coexistence are seen by the bishop as merely a satanic temptation, the smile of Judas, which he finally overcomes. So he replies: ‘Our land is foul; it reeks of this false religion’. And, following his command:

No single seeing eye, no Muslim tongue,
escaped to tell his tale another day.
We put them all unto the sword
All those who would not be baptised.
But who paid homage to the Holy Child,
were all baptised with sign of Christian cross.
And as brother each was hail’d and greeted.
We put to fire the Turkish houses,
That there might be no stick nor trace
Of these true servants of the devil!”

>> So you are contradicting yourself — unless you are saying that they did convict Serbia “without evidence”, in which case you are flat out lying.

SERBS, just like you, a Montenegrin Serb, did commit genocide. The court ruled that the STATE of Serbia did not know of the killing of 8000 men in Srebrenica. They didn’t know because SERBIA hid the documents.

Post a $10,000 bet and I’ll show the admin my Catholic baptism certificate and my USA passport. $10,000 bet. Put up or shut the F up!!! What more do you want?

[old-and-old]

admin moderator: you might have $5,000 coming your way if Bokababe who called me a “muslim albanian” follows up and places a bet. Upon confirmation of her $10K bet (she stated that she paid $30K in 2007 taxes so the bet is reasonable) I will show you my catholic baptism certificate and US passport provided that you keep my identity a secret. The other $5000 will go to supporting the Bosnian, Croatian and Albanian victims of rape from Serb soldiers who used rape a tool of war. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Pgz&q=rape+tool+of+war+serbs&btnG=Search

I’ll ask that she makes a check each side so they are no tax implications for me.

[LjubivojeRadosavljevic]

Nor were the Serbs of the pretend "Krajina" cleansed since they were ordered out by their own administration.

You might want to consider having yourself be called as a witness at General Gotovina's trial.

[Bokababe]

At what point did you get the impression that the Admin Moderator was your “Bookie”? Or that FR is an “online gambling site”? Do you think that this is how we’ve solved disagreements here?

You have deliberately misled everyone on so much information here that it shouldn’t be surprising that the you’d deliberately mislead on this information —including unsolicited private messaging me about “the Albanian language” being the “root of Balkan languages”. And referring to Albanian Christians as “they”, not “we”.

What I do know with certainty is that you have a deep avowed racist hatred for all things “Serb” and that doesn’t come out of “ordinary Americans” (unless they are paid propagandists). If you are indeed Catholic, you are either Albanian or Croat — neither of which you have admitted to — instead preferring to label me and anyone else who argues with you as the one who is “biased”. I laid my cards on the table along time ago here on FR, you have yet to do so.

Racist neo-nazi Albanian Muslim? Or racist neo-Nazi Croatian Ustashe? No difference, the same neo-Nazi loser mentality who just looks for a new place to spew its mindless bile, without ever being willing to logically debate a single issue.