Posted on 04/06/2008 5:27:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
Local and state officials entered the temple of a secretive polygamist sect late Saturday, said lawmen blockading the road to the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
The action comes hours after local prosecutors said officials were preparing for the worst because a group of FLDS members were resisting efforts to search the structure.
The Texas Department of Public Safety trooper and Schleicher County sheriff’s deputy confirmed that officials have entered the temple but said they had no word on whether anything occurred in the effort.
The incursion into the temple caps the three-day saga of the state’s Child Protective Services agency removing at least 183 women and children from the YFZ Ranch since Friday afternoon. Eighteen girls have been placed in state custody since a 16-year-old told authorities she was married to a 50-year-old man and had given birth to his child.
Saturday evening, ambulances were brought in, said Allison Palmer, who as first assistant 51st District attorney, would prosecute any felony crimes uncovered as part of the investigation inside the compound.
“In preparing for entry to the temple, law enforcement is preparing for the worst,” Palmer said Saturday evening. They want to have “medical personnel on hand in case this were to go in a way that no one wants.”
Apparently as a result of action Saturday night at the ranch, about 10:15 p.m. Saturday, a Schleicher County school bus unloaded another group of at least a dozen more women and children from the compound.
Although members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS, have provided varying degrees of cooperation to the sheriff’s deputies and Texas Rangers searching the compound, all cooperation stopped once authorities tried to search the gleaming white temple that towers over the West Texas scrub, Palmer said.
“There may be those who would oppose (entry) by placing themselves between law enforcement and the place of worship,” Palmer said Saturday afternoon. “If an agreement cannot be reached … law enforcement will have to — as gently and peaceably as possible — make entry into that place.”
Sect members consider the temple, dedicated by then-leader of the sect Warren Jeffs in January 2005 and finished many months later, off-limits to those who are not FLDS members, said Palmer, who prosecutes felony cases in Schleicher County.
Palmer said she didn’t know the size or makeup of the group inside the temple.
The earlier refusal to provide access was even more disconcerting because CPS investigators have yet to identify the 16-year-old girl or her roughly 8-month-old baby among the dozens removed from the compound, Palmer said.
“Anytime someone says, ‘Don’t look here,’” she said, “it makes you concerned that’s exactly where you need to look.”
The girl told authorities in two separate phone calls a day apart that she was married to a 50-year-old man, Dale Barlow, who had fathered her child, Palmer said.
The joint raid included the Texas Rangers, CPS, Schleicher County and Tom Green County sheriff’s deputies and game wardens from the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife.
Although CPS and Department of Public Safety officials have described the compound’s residents as cooperative, Palmer disagreed.
“Things have been a little tense, a little volatile,” she said.
Authorities removed 52 children Friday afternoon and 131 women and children overnight Friday. About 40 of the children are boys, said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.
No further children have been taken into state custody since Friday, when 18 girls were judged to have been abused or be at imminent risk for abuse. CPS has found foster homes for the girls, Meisner said, and will place them after concluding its investigation.
Meisner declined to comment on the fate of the 119 other children and said authorities were still searching the ranch for others Saturday evening.
“They’re in the process of looking,” she said. “They’re literally about halfway through.”
God, is still learning......!?!!?
God is the Creator and the works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound; Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
Those last two questions were also for you, Godzilla. When I copied them from my post to you, on the comments page, I forgot to go back and add them to this post of yours
“Question 11: Why did Jesus call Himself the “AMEN”, the ancient Egyptian name for the “Hidden God”, the “True God”, “God of Truth”, who created all things [whose image they corrupted, as all nations did, as Paul stated in Romans 1]; where is it written that Jesus “hidden God; the Truth”, in ancient writings, that Jesus knew the readers of the Revelation He gave to John would be familiar with and understand exactly “Who” “Amen” is:
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Question 12: Where in the “sacred scriptures” would the readers of John’s revelation have read what Jesus referred to, about Balaam’s deed, which Jesus referred to, in Rev 2:
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
-Where’s the record of that deed? how does it read? Why did Jesus expect the readers of John’s Revelation of Him to know what He meant?”
The positioning of the word "one" (mias) at the beginning of the phrase reflects a deliberate authorial emphasis. It is literally, order-wise, not merely "husband of one wife," but "one wife husband." This placement of mias, at the beginning of the phrase is why the NIV felt the best translation was "the husband of but one wife." The NEB puts it that an elder must be "faithful to his one wife." Thus understood, the phrase "husband of one wife" is a requirement of monogamous fidelity not polygamy. More properly ”Mias gunaikos andra" ("Husband of one wife" NASB) is literally translated "a man of one woman." There is no word in the Greek for our word 'husband.' The word for 'man' here is aner, the word for a male individual. When this word is used in a context of the marital relationship, it has the meaning of "husband." The words "wife" (woman) and "husband" (man) are used without the definite article in the original language text, which emphasizes character or nature. Therefore the structure of this passage could easily be translated "a one-wife sort of husband." (See also Titus 1:6; 1 Timothy 3:12) Let’s look at this closer:
δει ουν τον επισκοπον ανεπιληπτον ειναι μιας γυναικος ανδρα νηφαλεον σωφρονα κοσμιον φιλοξενον διδακτικον (1550 Greek NT; Stephen’s Textus Receptus). Broken down further:
μιας adjective - genitive singular feminine not plural feminine
heis, mia, hen: one -- a(-n, -ny, certain), + one (another), only.
γυναικος noun - genitive singular feminine Again not plural feminine
gune, gunaikos: a woman, a wife
ανδρα noun - accusative singular masculine
aner, andra: a man (properly as an individual male) -- fellow, husband, man, sir.
Old Greek had three genders: masculine, feminine, and neuter (as does Latin and German). Because the word for man/husband anêr is masculine in gender, any adjective modifying the word must be in the masculine gender as is the word heis. Likewise, the same is true for the word for wife/woman gunê; it must take the feminine gender and cannot take the masculine in order to be grammatically correct. The only real difference between heis and mia is gender, not emphasis or usage. To try and assert that mia may mean ‘first’ is a complete corruption of the Greek grammar placement in the above text. That mia is not used to mean ‘first’ is illustrated by the more specific word prôtos which does specifically mean 'first' if that was meant to be the specific emphasis in this passage. In other words if ‘first’ wife was meant it would have been worded, protos gunaikos andra.
heis/mia/hen mean exactly the same thing. Other than spelling and pronunciation, the only difference is grammatical gender. When this numeral is used with nouns, to denote 'one' thing or 'a' thing, the gender of the numeral must agree with the gender of the noun with which it used.
Example: Ephesians 4:4-6:
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all…(Ephesians 4:4-6, KJV)
one body = hen sôma, neuter gender.
one Spirit = hen pneuma, neuter gender.
one hope = mia elpidi, feminine gender.
one lord = heis kurios, masculine gender.
one faith = mia pistis, feminine gender.
one baptism = hen baptisma, neuter gender.
one God and Father of all = heis theos kai patêr pantôn, masculine gender.
I doubt very much that anyone other than a rabid cultist or heretic would ever assume that mia means 'first' in this passage, nor do we have any reason to render it here as 'a', because it is quite obvious that each occurence of heis/mia/hen in this passage really does mean literally 'one'.
Furthermore Mia, as meaning 'first', does not really work in 1 Timothy 3:2 for heis would also mean 'first' when Paul mentions the widow having been the wife of one man in I Timothy 5:9, and that would create a problem. For example, we would then have these literal renderings following the Greek word order in the following verses:
first wife's husbands (1 Tim. 3:12)
first husband's wife (1 Tim. 5:9)
In each of these two examples, the syntax is exactly the same:
genetive numeral genetive noun accusative/nominative noun
henos/mias andros/gunaikos andra/andres/anêr/gynê
Thus, to interpret the verses in which the wife is in the genetive case (gunaikos) as the first wife in a polygamous marriage, we would be compelled by the grammar to interpret the husband (andros) in 1Tim. 5:9 for example as the first husband in a polyandrous marriage! Thus, the 'first wife' scenario collapses because polyandry is never found anywhere in Scripture.
This takes me back to the comment I was once told by my Greek professor friend: “Mormons along with Jehovah’s Witnesses never correctly translate the Greek text….they usually corrupt the text”. I hope everyone can now see this ‘corruption’ by Delphi User on full display here. Unless of course Delphi wants to assert his belief that women may take multiple husbands??????
Let me remind you. You said, "Creator still is eternally learning"
Is God STILL learning according to you?
BTW....name the "worlds".
Please consider starting another thread in the religion forum and inviting those with whom you wish to debate. Thank you.
(Enoch)
BTW, anyone know a recipe for alligator gar to make it less, umm... jurassic?
With this comparison I can REALLY tell you are in the twilight zone as far as Christianity goes.
Failure 1 - You are associating English transliterations from two different languages as having the same meaning. Example the english 'casa' means cheese in russian, house in spanish.
Second failure - You didn't bother to use the blue scripture lexicon tools before you posted. The Hebrew root for amen is 'aman. You go back and do your homework and you will see there is absolutely nothing about 'hidden' in it.
Third failure - again didn't do your homework. Revelation is in greek and you'd find this under the greek definition of the word
The word "amen" is a most remarkable word. It was transliterated directly from the Hebrew into the Greek of the New Testament, then into Latin and into English and many other languages, so that it is practically a universal word. It has been called the best known word in human speech. The word is directly related -- in fact, almost identical -- to the Hebrew word for "believe" (amam), or faithful. Thus, it came to mean "sure" or "truly", an expression of absolute trust and confidence. -- HMM
Where I find this kind of equating of God to a pagan Egyptian god as you are doing, right here:
http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Category:The_Gnostic_Saints
http://www.thebeloveddisciple.org/prayer.html
We go to our prayer with knowledge and Truth on our side, the knowledge that whether you say "God" "Jehova" "Masau" "Shiva" "Allah" or "Amen", our prayer is received by our Father, who is the Heart of our Mother.
Is this what you are preaching? God = pagan gods? That is not Christian Doctrine. More info
Amun-Re - the sun god of Egypt. His name means "the hidden god." The creation of Amun-Re came from two separate gods. Amun was the local god of Thebes. He was considered to be the god of the air and of fertility. He was portrayed as a human wearing a head-dress with two feathers. Re was the Egyptian sun god, when the sun was out during the day. He was portrayed with the sun-disc on his head, and with the head of a phoenix. (The phoenix was associated with Re, because just as the sun "dies" every night and rises again the next morning, the phoenix is also able to rise again when it dies.) Amun and Re combined to become the one god Amun-Re when Thebes became the capital of Egypt. Amun was named the leader of the nation, so it was natural for the two to evolve into one.
http://www.helium.com/items/612346-religion-played-ancient-egypt
So, you are praying to an egyptian god now?
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
-Where’s the record of that deed? how does it read? Why did Jesus expect the readers of John’s Revelation of Him to know what He meant?”
Are you that ignorant? Look here for starters
Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
And go back to Numbers 22 and 23 for additional details.
The next time you want to post me, you need to answer where you are getting you beliefs from. These are not Christian beliefs you are spouting above, but pagan rehashed new age stuff. Otherwise, have a nice day.
Yep, u r right. Its become worthless to respond to pray anyway.
It’s just a flesh wound.
Yes; they are.
I said that "Sons of GOD" are not angels.
I stand by it.
Show me SCRIPTURE that says otherwise.
A simple concept.
So?
Who cares what Queers want?
(Psst... they thought they were MEN!)
Genesis 19:5
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
The above is an example of using SCRIPTURE to illustrate a point.
Your words: not the Bible's...
enoch
Since May 11, 1999
(0 comments)
Enoch, the ultimate lurker. (Everyone look busy!)
I knew it would come to pass that you'd end up saying this.
I am therefore a Prophet. Obey me!
The Creator is endlessly improving therefore always learning from his creation improving to make better.
You seem to have a vision of a God behind a curtain directing traffic instead of always designing and creating and improving his world with out ends.
Even Jesus was learning from his Father as it say in John 5
John 5
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 8:
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John7
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
****
Isa 43
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, [Jesus] neither shall there be after me.
Abraham 3
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
Deut 18
15 ¶ The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Except with you, restornu.
You are stuck in the rut of ignoring the basic question: What was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANISM.
Your continued avoidance of it makes you look like a petulant child.
We do not have to respond.
Restornu: you KNOW so LITTLE!!!
Genesis 2
1. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
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