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Faulty rules blamed for gun's firing (airline pilot's accidental discharge)
Washington Times ^ | March 28, 2008 | Audrey Hudson

Posted on 03/28/2008 12:28:59 PM PDT by neverdem

Inadequate handgun rules designed by Department of Homeland Security officials are to blame for last weekend's accidental discharge of a pistol by a commercial pilot during landing preparations, a pilots association said yesterday.

"The pilot has to take his gun off and lock it up before he leaves the cockpit, so he was trying to secure the gun in preparation for landing, while he was trying to fly the airplane, too," said David Mackett, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance. "In the process of doing that, the padlock that is required to be inserted into the holster pulled the trigger and caused the gun to discharge."

The unnamed US Airways pilot, who was landing at Charlotte/Douglas (N.C.) International Airport, has been placed on leave by the airline since the incident.

This was the first report of a pilot's gun being discharged on a plane.

APSA, an organization of pilots...

--snip--

"We complained to DHS two years ago that this was an unsafe rule," Mr. Mackett said.

Rather than carry the weapon on their person at all times, pilots must lock it up before opening the cockpit door, meaning pilots handle the gun as many as 10 times per flight, the association estimates.

Pilots who have completed training to become federal flight deck officers (FFDOs) and carry weapons must use a holster used primarily as a home child-safety lock. A padlock is inserted through the holster and trigger guard, but, if inserted backward, it can trigger the gun, pilots say.

"It's a completely unsafe system unless it's used in a static environment — in a bedroom with good light. But to try to balance a gun on your lap and padlock it while flying an airplane 300 miles an hour, sometimes in the dark, is not secure," Mr. Mackett said....

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: armedpilots; banglist; dhs; ffdo; usairways
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To: Hazcat

Ahem...A ROUND SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN CHAMBERED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sorry for shouting, but the point is pilot error occurred when he chambered a round, not when he activiated the the trigger lock (bad though the design certainly is).


21 posted on 03/28/2008 12:48:05 PM PDT by PowderMonkey (Will Work for Ammo)
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To: neverdem

Of course whenever there’s an ND, obviously more care should have been exercised. But that said, I’m going to stick up for the pilot in this case. That locking holster is a truly flawed idea. Having to handle the weapon that often and then putting something through across the trigger— when all that has to happen is to get the thing backwards and the weapon can fire in the holster... it is a setup for ND’s.

Bad idea, when a locking box would solve the problem.


22 posted on 03/28/2008 12:48:33 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: neverdem

Read this blog (second one down) it will explain the thinking of firearms experts on this.

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/


23 posted on 03/28/2008 12:49:26 PM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: PowderMonkey

Ahem....AN UNLOADED GUN IS AN EXPENSIVE ROCK!


24 posted on 03/28/2008 12:50:24 PM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: neverdem

Accidential discharge? Sounds like a faulty prostate.


25 posted on 03/28/2008 12:50:31 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople
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To: Hazcat

Just damn!!!!!

If ya carry, ya carry. The less you have to handle the piece, the less chance of an ND/AD. Then complacency is an evil that must be faced more often than bad guys.

This poor guy is going to have to live down being the first AD because of the bag of snakes equipment he has been saddled with.

See tagline


26 posted on 03/28/2008 12:51:59 PM PDT by petro45acp (NO good endeavor survives an excess of "adult supervision" (read bureaucracy)!)
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To: Hazcat; wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; ...
Thanks for the pic. You can't make this stuff up!

27 posted on 03/28/2008 12:52:03 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: PowderMonkey

There’s nothing inherently wrong with carrying a pistol with a round in the chamber, especially if it has a double-action first shot. It’s still quite common even for single action pistols like the 1911.

Granted, carrying without the round in the chamber makes an ND harder to do, and most times a pilot will probably have a few seconds of warning to chamber a round. And two hands free. Probably. But it should be left up to the individual for how they prefer to carry.


28 posted on 03/28/2008 12:53:41 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: dhs12345
Figured it was an auto.

???

It's a DAO semi-automatic.

29 posted on 03/28/2008 12:54:19 PM PDT by green iguana
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To: MuttTheHoople
Accidential discharge? Sounds like a faulty prostate.

Thats why I always call them ND (Negligent) not accidental.

30 posted on 03/28/2008 12:54:45 PM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: PowderMonkey

“Ahem...A ROUND SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN CHAMBERED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sorry for shouting, but the point is pilot error occurred when he chambered a round, not when he activiated the the trigger lock (bad though the design certainly is).”

Do we know that by TSA policy a round should not have been chambered? If a chambered round is authorized, and he was performing within policy, it gets turned over to refresher training, strongly worded policy announcement and training requirement throughout the agency.

Gotta love government training.

Don’t sweat the shouting, runnin out of duct tape these days!

Cheers


31 posted on 03/28/2008 12:57:50 PM PDT by petro45acp (NO good endeavor survives an excess of "adult supervision" (read bureaucracy)!)
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To: neverdem

didn’t need to read any further than “...accidental discharge...”


32 posted on 03/28/2008 1:00:46 PM PDT by woollyone (entropy extirpates evolution and conservation confirms the Creator blessed forever.)
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To: Hazcat

You have got to be kidding. How do they get it if they need it in a hurry?


33 posted on 03/28/2008 1:09:26 PM PDT by deuteronlmy232 (He who makes the universe get's to make the rules. He who makes the rules is the ultimate Judge.)
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To: Hazcat

Thanks for the link. Pray for the Republic.


34 posted on 03/28/2008 1:12:25 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: deuteronlmy232

They shouldn’t need it in a hurry. The cockpit doors are strongly reinforced and always closed and locked now during flight.


35 posted on 03/28/2008 1:13:59 PM PDT by green iguana
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To: thackney

A very smart FReeper figured this out on the first thread.

Very impressive!


36 posted on 03/28/2008 1:15:00 PM PDT by Eaker (2 Thessalonians 3:10 ... He that will not work, neither should he eat.)
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To: green iguana
Yup.

Semi-autos require... see my above post.

Haven't tried this yet with my hi-power but I wonder if my hi-power will discharge with a round chambered and the clip removed.

Have shot a lot of rounds with it but never tried this.

37 posted on 03/28/2008 1:18:41 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: Hazcat

Trigger locks on loaded weapons!?

Dumbest. Idea. Ever.

Or at least, right up there in the list.


38 posted on 03/28/2008 1:18:54 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (<===Typical White American)
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To: dhs12345

I gotcha - you saying auto and then semi-auto had me confused...

Mind wanders a bit on Friday afternoons.


39 posted on 03/28/2008 1:20:27 PM PDT by green iguana
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To: green iguana

I wasn’t clear.


40 posted on 03/28/2008 1:24:22 PM PDT by dhs12345
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