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BBC: Carey weighs into Sharia law row ( Rejects view of Archbishop on Sharia Law in England)
BBC ^ | Sunday, 10 February 2008, 12:43 GMT | BBC Staff

Posted on 02/10/2008 9:53:46 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Carey weighs into Sharia law row

Lord Carey

Lord Carey said his successor was a "great leader"

Pressure has mounted on the Archbishop of Canterbury after his comments about Islamic Sharia law were criticised by his predecessor.

Lord Carey said Dr Rowan Williams's suggested acceptance of some Muslim laws was "a view I cannot share".

But, writing in the News of the World, he said Dr Williams should not be forced to quit.

Dr Williams has insisted he was not advocating a parallel set of laws, but has faced calls for his resignation.

Supporters have described the reaction to his comments as "hysterical".

Dr Williams sparked a major row after saying, in a BBC Radio 4 interview last week, that the adoption of parts of the law was "unavoidable" in Britain.

Human rights

He is said to be shocked by the reaction and said on his website he "certainly did not call for its introduction as some kind of parallel jurisdiction to the civil law".

But the criticism continued as Lord Carey warned: "He has in my opinion overstated the case for accommodating Islamic legal codes.

Dr Rowan Williams
Dr Williams is said to be shocked by the response to his comments

"His conclusion that Britain will eventually have to concede some place in law for aspects of Sharia is a view I cannot share.

"There can be no exceptions to the laws of our land which have been so painfully honed by the struggle for democracy and human rights.

"His acceptance of some Muslim laws within British law would be disastrous for the nation."

But he added: "He is a great leader in the Anglican tradition and he has a very important role to play in the Church."

'Classic British row'

Senior politicians defended the use of religious courts to arbitrate in disputes such as marital issues but said they could never challenge civil law.

Geoff Hoon, the government's chief whip, told Sky News Dr Williams should be able to stimulate debate but questioned the wisdom of him commenting on "complicated legal matters".

Tory former chancellor Ken Clarke said Dr Williams was an "unworldly man" who had got himself into "an absolutely classic British row".

"He has angered a lot of people because they have all been persuaded that he has been talking about bringing back the stoning of women for various moral offences and so on, which plainly he is just about the last person on earth to contemplate."

Further criticism came from Greg Venables, the Anglican Archbishop of the Southern Cone, which covers much of South America.

Public debate

He expressed concern at the timing of the speech when there was tension between Christians and Muslims in some parts of the world.

He told the BBC: "Taken within the context of other things that have been said and done in recent months, it would just add to a general sense that confidence in the leadership of the Anglican church has plummeted."

BBC News religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott said it was "pretty inconceivable" that Dr Williams would resign but warned the intervention by Archbishop Venables was a "severe swipe".

"A lot of the conservatives in the Anglican communion worldwide, and they make up tens of millions of people, clearly the majority, live cheek by jowl with Muslims and a lot of them have real issues with Sharia law," he added.

Dr Williams did not refer to the issue while preaching at a memorial service in Cambridge on Saturday, where he was briefly heckled on leaving.

He is thought likely to do so during his address to the General Synod in London on Monday.

'Thoughtful intervention'

Dr Williams was offered support by the Right Reverend George Cassidy, Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham, who branded the reaction "hysterical" and said the archbishop was simply trying to take forward a serious public debate.

He was also defended by the most senior woman priest in the Church of England, the Dean of Salisbury the Very Reverend June Osborne, who said: "Our society needs to be provoked into talking about these things."

And the Muslim Council of Britain welcomed his "thoughtful intervention" on the discussion of the place of Islam and Muslims in modern Britain.

But two General Synod members have urged him to quit.

Col Edward Armitstead, from the diocese of Bath and Wells, said he did not think Dr Williams was "the man for the job".

Secular state

Alison Ruoff, from London, hailed him as a brilliant scholar, but added: "In terms of being a leader of the Christian community I think he's actually at the moment a disaster."

SHARIA LAW

Sharia law is Islam's legal system

It is derived from the Koran and the life of the prophet Mohammed

Sharia rulings help Muslims understand how they should lead their lives

A formal legal ruling is called a fatwa

In the West, Sharia courts deal mainly with family and business issues

English law recognises religious courts as a means of arbitration


The statement on the archbishop's website said Dr Williams said certain provisions of Sharia were "already recognised in our society and under our law".

It added that he was exploring how "reasonable accommodation might be made within existing arrangements for religious conscience" and seeking "to tease out some of the broader issues around the rights of religious groups within a secular state".

Catholic leader Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor said he was "saddened" by the way the archbishop had been misunderstood.

"I think he did raise a point of considerable interest and concern at the moment, namely, the rights of a religious groups within secular state.

"Everyone in Britain must obey the law and therefore the question of how one can be a loyal British citizen and a faithful member of a religious group is a very pertinent question," he told BBC Radio 4's Sunday programme.




TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: anglican; archbishop; canterbury; dhimmitude; eurabia; europeanchristians; islam; jihadinbritain; rowanwilliams; sharia; sharialaw; ukmuslims; williams
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1 posted on 02/10/2008 9:53:51 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

They both ought to be relieved so that they can share the post of Governor(s) General of the Bahamas. They could share a nice, comfortable house there with Brittany Spears.


2 posted on 02/10/2008 10:00:22 AM PST by dr_who_2
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams is an idiot. As Cramer would say, “he knows nothing, he knows nothing”.


3 posted on 02/10/2008 10:01:01 AM PST by GOPJ (Take your ball - go home - sit this one out? Fifty years of liberal Supreme Court decisions? NO WAY.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

“Catholic leader Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor said he was “saddened” by the way the archbishop had been misunderstood.

“I think he did raise a point of considerable interest and concern at the moment, namely, the rights of a religious groups within secular state. “

Another moron - and I’m Catholic.


4 posted on 02/10/2008 10:06:47 AM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

“Another moron - and I’m Catholic”

Me too, is there any men left in the catholic church?? My priests are sissies. I mean sissies!!!


5 posted on 02/10/2008 10:12:50 AM PST by lookout88 (Combat search and rescue officer's dad.)
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To: lookout88

Mine wears Save Darfur! and Proud Member of the VLWC tee shirts.


6 posted on 02/10/2008 10:16:53 AM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1
“Mine wears Save Darfur! and Proud Member of the VLWC tee shirts.”

WoW, let me see if I can beat that one. Mine just built themselves a new 800k priest’s residence that they extracted from the parish. Jacuzzis, and all the comforts of home.

7 posted on 02/10/2008 10:22:30 AM PST by lookout88 (Combat search and rescue officer's dad.)
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To: lookout88

Word just came down that our church and another may have to close. No money.


8 posted on 02/10/2008 10:30:03 AM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

Rowan Williams, the Pink Flamingo and the loony Archbishop of Nothing. Williams once described himself as a “hairy lefty”. No surprise is it?

Christianity is all but dead in England anyway. No offense to the few Brits who still practice the faith but that’s why Muslims love it there. There aren’t many of those annoying Christians who have been battling them for 1300 years. And those that remain have been silenced by raging, out-of-control political correctness and speech codes.

So it’s really no surprise why the Anglicans are closing up shop with leaders like this gutless wonder.


9 posted on 02/10/2008 10:36:43 AM PST by Neville72 (uist)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Dr Williams Clueless is said to be shocked by the response to his comments.

There. Fixed it.

10 posted on 02/10/2008 10:53:28 AM PST by Seruzawa (Atilla the hun... he was a liberal, right?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I think someone needs to remind this maroon, just what happens to pesky Archbishops of Canterbury.


11 posted on 02/10/2008 11:39:25 AM PST by razorback-bert (Eco-wackos make love by candlelight, it is the only light they have.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"He is said to be shocked by the reaction and said on his website he "certainly did not call for its introduction as some kind of parallel jurisdiction to the civil law"."

'Shocked!' I tell you. He hadn't a clue such an innocuous statement would generate so much heat. of course he had no intention of suggesting that Sharia law should replace British law.

Of course he didn't. We all know that . . . don't we? . . .

well, don't we? . . . hello? . . . is anyone out there? . . .

12 posted on 02/10/2008 11:47:14 AM PST by YHAOS
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To: Professional Engineer

ping


13 posted on 02/10/2008 12:09:26 PM PST by Peanut Gallery ("An armed society is a polite society.")
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To: sionnsar

‘nuther ping


14 posted on 02/10/2008 12:09:55 PM PST by Peanut Gallery ("An armed society is a polite society.")
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Martin Luther:”Here I stand I can do no other”
Archbishop Williams”You can stand here..or there, or anywhere you want, we sure dont want to offend anybody!”
The church has historical personages who stand up against the flow and say NO WAY IN HELL WE GO THAT WAY AS A CHURCH..Rowan Willams is not one of those...


15 posted on 02/10/2008 12:14:17 PM PST by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Rowan Williams is a fool; if he won’t quit, Parliament should fire him immediately.


16 posted on 02/10/2008 12:20:35 PM PST by Redbob (WWJBD: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: lookout88
"Me too, is there any men left in the catholic church??"

Yes, your Pope clearly is one;
I'd gladly trade you Rowan Williams for him, AND the "Presiding Bishop" of what remains of the Episcopal Church of the U.S., AND a draft choice to be named later!

17 posted on 02/10/2008 12:26:55 PM PST by Redbob (WWJBD: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: Redbob

Ok, agreed.


18 posted on 02/10/2008 12:28:56 PM PST by lookout88 (Combat search and rescue officer's dad.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Dr Williams was offered support by the Right Reverend George Cassidy, Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham, who branded the reaction "hysterical" and said the archbishop was simply trying to take forward a serious public debate.

Oh, it has taken forward a serious public debate. Clearly there are issues to be discussed here, not the least of which is just how blind an eye British jurisprudence can afford to cast toward a rival legal system that has every intention of supplanting it.

It is no real surprise that other, ah, "scholars" have flown to Williams' defense with the curious argument that not only did Williams not mean what he said, he didn't say what he said. That, in my view, is taxing public credulity just a little far, nearly as far as declaring grandly that Williams had a "public debate" in mind but that anyone who actually does attempt to debate the matter is "hysterical."

19 posted on 02/10/2008 12:45:52 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

There is an underlying theme here that is not immediately apparent:

Is there truth? Or is truth “relative” (in this case, relative to cultures and religions)?

[Pontius Pilate: “What is truth?”]

There is ONE truth, ONE God, and ONE Redeemer.

If Archbishop Williams is unable to affirm this, he should indeed resign.


20 posted on 02/10/2008 6:54:28 PM PST by mtntop3
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