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OFFICERS WHINE BY EXAMPLE (British Hostage Behavior)
New York Post ^ | 7 April 07 | Ralph Peters

Posted on 04/07/2007 4:26:42 AM PDT by SkyPilot

April 7, 2007 -- A SOLDIER'S law in the U.S. Army holds: "The maxi mum effective range of an excuse is zero meters." Yesterday, the two officers on a panel of former British hostages delivered nothing but excuses for their disgraceful conduct.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: british; hostages; iran
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To: Cuttnhorse
Before going to Nam on Swift Boats, I went through SERE at Warner Springs in the desert east of San Diego.

I heard of that program. It was tough.

The Air Force had another program even tougher than Fairchild. It was reserved for U-2 pilots, RC-135 crews, and SR-71 pilots. I think it was 2 weeks in the "camp" and just a nightmare.

101 posted on 04/07/2007 10:19:47 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: maica
"I'm sorry that Ralph Peters had to write this article..."

Check this one out by MSNBC military analyst Jack Jacobs. It's pretty scathing:

British sailors’ conduct was a disgrace

102 posted on 04/07/2007 10:26:48 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: politicalwit
Thanks for posting the Code. It is very informative and a good reminder.

I am not familiar with the British equivalent, but I am very sure that in the weeks and months to come, we are going to read about some of these British servicemen having problems. As the the reality of how they acted sinks in, they will become increasingly angry and shamed. I will not be surprised if I read about divorces, alcoholism, or other problems.

The Code of Conduct is there to protect and guide American servicemen. I remember interviewing Gen Latham years ago. He was in the Hanoi Hilton for several months. He was a late war shoot down while flying the "Fast FAC" F-4. He later on became a 2 time Thunderbird.

He told me when he got to his cell, he was passed a note in his food. It was written on the back of a chewing gum foil piece - very small writing. On it, it said:

"There are 110 POWs immediately west of you in this building. Your Commanding Officer is XXXX. You will follow his orders and back him up."

Below that, was a copy of the "Tap Code" and also a copy of the Code of Conduct. In addition, they gave him an additional duty - Deputy Officer in Charge of Morale!

These POWs were an amazing group of men.

103 posted on 04/07/2007 10:28:34 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: mass55th

That was a scathing article by Col Jacobs - a man who earned the Medal of Honor, 2 Silver Stars, and several Bronze Stars.


104 posted on 04/07/2007 10:32:38 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

When your major partner in the WAR ON TERROR carries on like this...makes you truly believe we are on our own.


105 posted on 04/07/2007 10:37:31 AM PDT by maineman (BC Eagle fan)
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To: MizSterious

LOL @ the nuggies.


106 posted on 04/07/2007 10:38:07 AM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: norton

Thank you for that great post, norton.


107 posted on 04/07/2007 10:48:34 AM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: Maria S
"Not to mention that the woman in the group was pregnant with another child! "

She's pregnant? I didn't know that. I've tried googling that info, but come up with a blank. Do you have a source?

108 posted on 04/07/2007 10:52:21 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: SkyPilot

Those 15 Brits were TESTED.......sadly, they FAILED!!


109 posted on 04/07/2007 10:52:21 AM PDT by PISANO
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To: Al Gator

Man, if that isn’t the truth! What a complete disgrace he was and so few Americans have been in the military, they couldn’t understand why there were people who were mortified by his lack of action.


110 posted on 04/07/2007 10:53:34 AM PDT by go-dubya-04
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To: mass55th

I understand that the Royal Navy is going to be just half its present size in a few weeks time. Perhaps these troops felt they had nothing to be loyal to.

Their conduct is such an aberration of what we would like to remember from previous times.


111 posted on 04/07/2007 11:10:25 AM PDT by maica (America will be a hyperpower that's all hype and no power -- if we do not prevail in Iraq)
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To: Teacher317

I wish I could agree with you, but I can’t. Statistically, it is a handful of servicemen/women out of thousands that serve in the military!!!

Lets put this in context:
Those sailors and marines were told not to resist before they were even deployed.
One of the RN chiefs stated that “they (the sailors/marines) did exactly what they were asked to do”. What were they asked to do??????
Finally, it just came out that the RN ships that apparently just stood by, were under the command of a USN admiral, so the chain of command would have been directly to him.

I can understand that to someone that may not have ever served in the military, the actions of a group of people whose number you could count on both hands, could call into question the ability of that countries military, but that really isn’t the case. The basic training of the British infantry and marines is still the most gruelling among western forces. Every British soldier is a trained rifleman from the pay clerks, cooks and medics through to the infantryman, unlike the US army, but I think the most telling is the fact that British soldiers and Marines are out there dying in Iraq and Afghanistan just the same as US soldiers are. I know, I lost an old mate in Afghanistan in March.

Why don’t you go and take a look at what British forces are capable of first, operations like Operation Barras, nimrod, the battles of goose green and tumbledown, the operation last year where 2 SAS fellas apparently ‘surrendered’ to terrorist elements in the Iraqi police in much the same manner, leaving people confused as to why 2 soldiers from a special forces regiment would ‘surrender’ in a situation that they could’ve easily shot their way out of. In that operation, the SAS fellas were passed through the terrorist network, when the Brit commanders thought they were about to reach the point of ‘no-return’ i.e. execution time for the SAS men, terrorist doors were broken down and the police/terrorist network was culled overnight, and the 2 SAS men were brought in, the Brit commanders knew exactly where they were!

So, no, I wouldn’t say that the latest stageshow is a fair sample of Britains military.........


112 posted on 04/07/2007 12:50:58 PM PDT by batco-barry
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To: Beckwith

“Just one more argument against women in combat rolls.”

Hear, hear!!!


113 posted on 04/07/2007 12:55:26 PM PDT by batco-barry
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To: M Kehoe

Troops classed as ‘prone to capture’ still get resistance to interrogation (ROI) training.............


114 posted on 04/07/2007 12:58:13 PM PDT by batco-barry
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To: mass55th

“She’s pregnant? I didn’t know that. I’ve tried googling that info, but come up with a blank. Do you have a source?”

Nothing specific; I heard a couple of different commentators mention that she was going to have another child (she already had a little girl named Molly). And the Iranian government scolded the Brits at one point for allowing a pregnant woman to serve in the military.


115 posted on 04/07/2007 2:51:45 PM PDT by Maria S
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To: Maria S
Nothing specific; I heard a couple of different commentators mention that she was going to have another child (she already had a little girl named Molly). And the Iranian government scolded the Brits at one point for allowing a pregnant woman to serve in the military.

She looked really plump in the photo - I thought she was just overweight. But now that you mention, she does look pregnant.


116 posted on 04/07/2007 3:58:37 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Maria S
I knew she had one child, and if she's really pregnant, I'm wondering if she bothered to share that with her superiors. I'm not sure what procedure is for pregnant sailors in the British Navy. Do they continue in their regularly assigned duties? I've also been wondering about her being filmed smoking. Frankly, I haven't seen any films of the captured male Sailors/Marines smoking. Have you? I vaguely recall someone posting here on FR, that one of the things complained about by the Sailors/Marines at the press conference yesterday, was that they weren't allowed to smoke. If that's true, why was Turney allowed to smoke? Propaganda? Do female Muslims smoke...I don't know.

I am a bit perplexed that a similar kidnapping incident occurred with the Brits in June of 2004, yet they took no steps to prevent it from happening again. Not to mention the fact that Iran had been claiming they were going to kidnap U.S. soldiers in the past weeks. Did the Brits think they wouldn't be included in those threats, especially in light of the fact that some of their own had already been taken hostage less than two years before? The first time, fourteen Sailors & Marines were taken and held for three days. They were apparently tormented during all that time. Same M.O., same type of circumstances with Iran claiming they had entered Iranian waters. One would have thought that the British Navy would have vowed that something like that would never happen again. They should have been embarrassed then; they should be humiliated now.

117 posted on 04/07/2007 4:22:15 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: SkyPilot

That’s Navy Lt. Carmon? center right of the picture with the light grey suit on.

How alarming that he seems to have the biggest smile on and most flamboyant wave. Pathetic. I wouldn’t let him lead a canoe trip down 3 miles of the Potomac.


118 posted on 04/07/2007 10:07:50 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("Message to radical jihadis...come to my hood, it's understood ------ it's open season" Stuck Mojo)
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To: batco-barry
Welcome to FR.

[And if you are a Christian, HAPPY EASTER!]

5.56mm

119 posted on 04/08/2007 4:06:13 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: norton
Good morning. Good rant. It was a good thread. Someone should send it to the Royal Marines...

5.56mm

120 posted on 04/08/2007 4:37:57 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Al Gator

“But you have to admit, their being accorded hero status for no other reason than we are slim on heros, is not good military practice and can be counter productive.”

They haven’t been accorded hero status in the UK, on the contrary.....


121 posted on 04/08/2007 8:48:14 AM PDT by batco-barry
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To: batco-barry

And that is as it should be.

Their case will shake out and soon we will know everything.

No doubt, when they were instructed to stand down and not engage, they must have gone through some confusion.

My chief bone to pick, on this thread, is that “hero” status has been accorded to a commander who willingly gave our enemy state secrets. And then got a medal for it.

I am extremely frustrated with the state of our feminized military.


122 posted on 04/08/2007 1:50:09 PM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: GAB-1955

And neither are the British armed forces,mate.

These 15(and not all 15 behaved like cowards) dont epitomise the RN or the British armed forces anymore than the idiots at Abu Ghraib epitomise yours...


123 posted on 04/11/2007 9:54:04 PM PDT by the scotsman
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To: txzman

Wrong.


124 posted on 04/11/2007 9:54:30 PM PDT by the scotsman
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