Flood Made Britain An Island 'In 24 Hours'

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 9-25-2006 | Tim Hall

[blam]

Journey Of Mankind

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Haven't seen that map before....

[airborne]

What kind of SUV’s were they driving back then?

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Well, we woke up the thread ....fun, fun, fun!!!

[blam]

"Well, we woke up the thread ....fun, fun, fun!!!"

This one was asleep for five years and just woke up yesterday, lol.

Hummingbird Imposters (Mystery Solved)

[Fred Nerks]

http://www.grisda.org/origins/12041.htm

THE EXPANDING EARTH. 1976. S. Warren Carey. ....

And that is what this book is about, a "more probable model" which proposes "that the earth is expanding and that the separation of the continents by growth of new oceans is not extensively compensated by the swallowing of old crust elsewhere" (p. 14).

"That the diameter of the earth has increased with time at an increasing rate, is the theme of this book"

(p. 118). In fact Carey suggests that there is evidence that the surface area of the earth has doubled since the Paleozoic era (pp. 20, 47, 51).

The evidence that Carey cites necessitating an expanding earth are:

gaping gores, which appear to be false artifacts, in even the best Pangea assembled on a present size earth (p. 39).

"A coherent integral assembly is only possible on a globe of smaller radius ..." (p. 27).

hierarchy of polygons into which the earth's crust is broken. Carey identifies nine first-order polygons (p. 12) which are more or less equivalent to the plates of tectonic theory. He provides evidence that each of these are broken up into second order polygons which in turn, are broken into third order polygons, etc. (p. 42).

Carey suggests this is the natural consequence of the earth's crust accommodating to the increasing radius of the earth. increase in area of each of the first-order polygons (tectonic plates) since the Paleozoic and an increase in the distance between the centers of each plate (p. 47).

Pacific paradox associated with evidence that the Pacific Ocean doubled in size during the time that Pangea ruptured and dispersed and the Arctic, North Atlantic, South Atlantic and Indian Oceans developed (p. 50). consensus that Australia, South and North America, Africa, India and Europe have moved to more northerly latitudes since the Mesozoic era and yet are generally further from the Arctic now than then (pp. 52, 116, 199). In fact, as a result of the mid-Atlantic ridge, the Arctic Ocean is still expanding today.

young ocean floors. Carey feels that "it is incredible that no sizeable block of old ocean crust would be left anywhere" if the size of the earth has remained fixed but that this would be expected on an expanding earth (p. 53).

close geologic association of India with Antarctica, Australia and Africa. On a globe of the earth's current radius it is not topologically possible to assemble Pangea so that India fits all these neighbors (p. 435) but "all these close connections emerge automatically when Pangaea is assembled on a terrella of appropriate radius" (p. 436).

[Fred Nerks]

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global/expanding_earth.html

[SunkenCiv]

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[Fred Nerks]

Graphic from the BBC article:

---------------

Northern sea baffles archaeologists Pravda ^ | 03/11/2004 12:50 | Grigory Donskov

Posted on 03/24/2004 5:37:29 PM PST by vannrox

Approximately 10 000 years ago the entire bottom of the Northern sea had been a blossoming valley, inhabited by ancestors of modern-day Europeans. Scientists from the Birmingham University were able to reach such conclusion after reconstructing local landscape by means of computers. Archaeologists analyzed data of earth's crust's fluctuations and using a specially designed program managed to come up with a 3D image of the area. The region connects today's British Isles with continental Europe.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1104756/posts

[Fred Nerks]

FYI. Have you seen this?

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/floods/mfloods.html

[norton]

"Is it wrong to hope for the same thing to happen to California and the New England States?"

Have you considered how wide the intervening channel would have to be?

[js1138]

Had there been such a lake, with the Dover strait area to its south, then the draining of such a lake southward would have left its northern shores high and dry - there would have to be the second land bridge to the north. Thus IMHO his theory does not hold water.

I notice there are no maps showing the before and after. I'm having trouble visualizing this.

[norton]

"The {poof} notion of geology and biology is long ago discredited."

What?

[norton]

"Why did BBC just post this so late?"

Either so that we could justify repeating ourselves or because it is almost an anniversary?

[SunkenCiv]

related topic (I’m building an omnibus post right now):

Scientists unravel 8,200-year-old climate riddle
University of Southampton | April 23, 2005 | PhysOrg
Posted on 03/02/2006 12:54:12 PM EST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1588624/posts

[SunkenCiv]

The poofster notion of geology and biology is long ago discredited. ;’)

http://www.freerepublic.com/~thomaswest/

“This account has been banned or suspended.”

[SunkenCiv]

thanks for that link FN. :’)

Northern sea baffles archaeologists
Pravda | 03/11/2004 12:50 | Grigory Donskov
Posted on 03/24/2004 8:37:29 PM EST by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1104756/posts

[blam]

Oppenheimer's DNA map in his book, Origins Of The British, show a population of people that lived on this (pre-flood) plain and were split when the channel was opened up. To this day, the DNA on both sides of the channel are essentially the same, it's real old. He says this DNA similarity confuses theories about the Anglo-Saxon invasion which he says was not a significant event and no where near the scale we've always been taught.

The major differences in the British Isles are mainly to the various 'waves' of the same people arriving there from the same Franco-Iberian Ice Age refuge. There are very subtle differences detectable in the DNA of each wave...I believe he said 18 waves. It is only when the DNA from the other Ice Age refuges (R1a's and I's - Ukraine & Baltic ) begin arriving along the eastern areas that another DNA influence is detected. He says that 85% of the British DNA today is ancient and arrived very early.

90% of the Irish are R1b's as are 70% of all other Europeans.

Bryan Sykes says that the Thames and the Rhine were once the same river.

[SunkenCiv]

assembled from files on the hard drive:

A Giant Siberian Lake During The Last Glacial:
Evidence And Implications
by E.U. Lioubimtseva, S.P. Gorshkov, and J.M. Adams

Of key interest are studies of the 5-6m thick Urtamsk lacustrine deposits which cover several different terraces at different altitudinal levels in the Yenisei valley. These clays, silts and fine sands are also to be found at altitudes of 80-150 m or higher, in several parts of the Ob valley. Numerous radiocarbon dates from sites in both river valleys have attested that the age of the Urtamsk deposits is between 22,000 and 12,300 BP (Arkhipov et al 1973). This suggests that in fact the whole of the area delimited by these terraces has been covered by a lake during the last glacial phase.

The potential implications of the existence of a giant Siberian lake are manifold. As a modifier of the Northern Hemisphere climate system, it might have been significant. In addition to the localised effects described above, its effects on albedo might have contributed to the global climate of the Last Glacial. Presumably being completely frozen over in winter (all the indications from the molluscan and diatom fauna and flora are of boreal freshwater conditions; freshwater of course freezes somewhat more readily than brine), it would have acted as a major winter heat sink for the Northern Hemisphere, comparable perhaps with a large ice sheet in terms of its albedo effects. In summer, if all or some of the surface ice melted, the lake would possibly act as a major solar heat absorber by virtue of its lower albedo. There is clearly a need for GCM experiments to consider the effects of this lake on the LGM climate. Indeed, inclusion of this realistic feature of the ice-age world may help to clear up some of the disagreements between observed and predicted LGM climates.

Furthermore, the lake must at some stage have begun to drain northwards as the ice dam receded and as the northward-draining rivers regained their present drainage pattern. Whether this occurred suddenly (in catastrophic drainage events comparable to or exceding the Lake Agassiz events in North America: (e.g. Broecker et al 1989) or gradually is not clear. However, the existence of several lower terraces may suggest that it was concentrated in stages separated by longer periods of stable lake level. The exit of the lake's freshwater northwards into the Arctic Sea could potentially have had effects on sea ice formation.

Back to siberia: the biggest flood?
by William R. Corliss
Science Frontiers
No. 92: Mar-Apr 1994

14,000 BP. Deep in the Altai Mountains of southern Siberia. About this date, a wall of water 1,500 feet high surged down the Chuja River valley at 90 miles per hour. How does one deduce such a hydrological cataclysm? A. Rudoy, a geologist at Tomsky State Pedagogical Institute, points to giant gravel bars along the Chuja River valley. These are not the inch-sized ripples we seen on the floors of today's rivers; these are giants measuring tens of yards from crest to crest. Only a catastrophic flood could have piled up these ridges of debris. Rudoy postulates that, during the Ice Ages, a huge ice dam upstream held back a lake 3,000 feet deep, containing 200 cubic miles of water. When the ice dam suddenly ruptured, all life and land downstream was devastated.

(Folger, Tim; "The Biggest Flood," Discover, 15:36, January 1994.)

Comment. The breaking of Pleistocene ice dams also carved up parts of North America. There was the famous Cincinnati ice dam and, of course, the Spokane Flood that gouged out the Channelled Scablands of the Pacific Northwest, when Lake Missoula catastrophically emptied into the Pacific. See ETM5 in our catalog: Carolina Bays, Mima Mounds. It is described here.

But other thoughts intrude: Were the heaps of mammoth carcasses, the Siberian "ivory islands," and those anomalous stone tools mentioned earlier under Archeology the consequences similar Siberian floods?

A glacial dam broke 14,000 years ago in the Chuja River valley, releasing as much as 200 cubic miles of water in a burst that produced patterns similar to those found in the channelled scablands of the NW US. The remote location (Altai Mts of southern Siberia) behind what had until recently been behind the Iron Curtain kept this obscure. As of the time this article was written, there were those who didn't accept this, which figures. The scientists cited are Alexey Rudoy, Victor Baker, and Gerardo Benito, the first from Tomsk State Pedagogical Institute in Siberia, the others from the University of Arizona.

From Science v 295, 11 Jan 2002,p 256-258:

"Kirchner was startled when the nuclide concentrations in the sediments he drew out of streams in 37 different catchments in Idaho's mountains revealed erosion rates over the past 5000 to 2700 years that averaged a whopping 17 times higher than modern-day rates, a finding he reported in the July 2002 Geology. After ruling out climate change and other factors, Kirchner concluded that the huge discrepancy must be due to catastrophic erosion events so rare that decades of regular observations are unlikely to spot them... One lesson to be drawn from this study, Kirchner suggests, is that in young, dynamic mountain ranges, engineers may be greatly overestimating the time it will take reservoirs to fill with debris should one of these catastrophic events occur in the reservoirs' lifetime." -- "Subtleties of Sand Reveal How Mountains Crumble" [related to cosmogenic nuclide dating]

8,200-year-old climate change studied
Mar 1, 2006, 3:02 GMT
Monsters and Critics
UPI

Retreating glaciers opened a route for two ancient meltwater lakes, known as Agassiz and Ojibway, to suddenly and catastrophically drain from the middle of the North American continent. At approximately the same time, climate records show the Earth experienced its last abrupt climate shift -- a drop of average air temperature by several degrees. Scientists believe the massive freshwater pulse interfered with the ocean's overturning circulation, which distributes heat around the globe.

Romans and Barbarians
by Derek Williams
(p 70)

In fact the German heartland appears to have lain in the southern Baltic and north coastal areas of today's Germany. However, in the late 2nd century BC the Germans began to move southwards into the Rhineland and Belgium, setting in motion events which would shake Roman confidence and fuel her longstanding fear of the morthern peoples. Two tribes migrated from Jutland, 'driven from their lands by a great flood-tide.'18 [footnote: Strabo, Geography, 7.2.1]

If this old German tale were a preservation of one of the glacial flood experiences, I have to wonder if it refers to the large influx of cold water attested by isotopes in the Greenland ice cores, or to the breaching of a previously unknown natural barrier which filled what is now the strait between Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia. Interestingly enough, Strabo betrays his own uniformitarian bias:

Geography
by Strabo
7.2.1

II. As for the Cimbri, some things that are told about them are incorrect and others are extremely improbable. For instance, one could not accept such a reason for their having become a wandering and piratical folk as this--that while they were dwelling on a Peninsula they were driven out of their habitations by a great flood-tide; for in fact they still hold the country which they held in earlier times; and they sent as a present to Augustus the most sacred kettle1 in their country, with a plea for his friendship and for an amnesty of their earlier offences, and when their petition was granted they set sail for home; and it is ridiculous to suppose that they departed from their homes because they were incensed on account of a phenomenon that is natural and eternal, occurring twice every day. And the assertion that an excessive flood-tide once occurred looks like a fabrication, for when the ocean is affected in this way it is subject to increases and diminutions, but these are regulated and periodical.

And if he were alive today, he'd say he wouldn't believe that the Moon landings happened because he hasn't gone himself.

Scientists confirm historic massive flood in climate change
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
February 28, 2006

Scientists from NASA and Columbia University, New York, have used computer modeling to successfully reproduce an abrupt climate change that took place 8,200 years ago. At that time, the beginning of the current warm period, climate changes were caused by a massive flood of freshwater into the North Atlantic Ocean. This work is the first to consistently recreate the event by computer modeling, and the first time that the model results have been confirmed by comparison to the climate record, which includes such things as ice core and tree ring data... As retreating glaciers opened a route for two ancient meltwater lakes, known as Agassiz and Ojibway, to suddenly and catastrophically drain from the middle of the North American continent. At approximately the same time, climate records show that the Earth experienced its last abrupt climate shift.

---

Circulation patterns in the North Atlantic Ocean. Cold, dense water is shown in blue, flowing south from upper latitudes, while warm, less dense water flows north. Credit: Jack Cook for Ocean and Climate Change Institute, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Been reading thru that,...points out problems with all of these theories regarding ice-dams,,,,,

From post #279:

Rudoy postulates that, during the Ice Ages, a huge ice dam upstream held back a lake 3,000 feet deep, containing 200 cubic miles of water. When the ice dam suddenly ruptured, all life and land downstream was devastated.

*************************************EXCERPT from the document at link at post #270:

***************************************************

Scientists have invented an ad hoc process, for the creation of a lake, which contradicts climatic and geophysical thermal conditions. However, Warren C. Hunt exposed another problem related to such an ice dam. He claimed that it would be impossible for an ice dam to hold back a lake of water 2,100 feet deep.23

According to Hunt, since modern engineering employs bedrock grouting for securing the footings of 500-foot...dams, it must strike any reader as...frivolous to suggest that chance emplacement of glacial ice might have dammed Clark Fork across a 7-mile...span lacking in intermediate abutments and then retained water at four times the pressure of modern, engineered, concrete dams!24

In fact, Hunt proved the dam was emplaced elsewhere and "would have had an unsupported length of approximately 50 [miles]...."25

He said that "[i]ce has no effective tinsel strength"26 and would break under the stresses created by the pressure on an ice wall over seven miles in length. Consider picking up a block of ice measuring 100 feet long x 20 feet thick x 40 feet wide at its ends. The weight of the ice block will cause it to snap and break. The longer the length of the dam, the easier it is to break.