Thanks Torie. Just an update bump.
Posted on 09/23/2006 10:33:58 AM PDT by Torie
There's an Irish ping list?
I suspect there are a load of folks who would like to know about that, and be on it, myself (sorry, meself) included.
Now, to really get it all straight, and drill down to the truth of it:
The original human inhabitants of Ireland were two: the Firbolgs, who were dark men, and the Tuatha da Dannan who, if the truth be known, were partly mixed with the Elves who preceded all in the land, and carried some of their magic forward. The Fomorians were raiding sea-peoples with a strain of demon in them.
The Milesians, named after Miletus of Spain, were the first True Men (in the sense of being wholly of human blood) to settle Ireland, and through fecundity and superior strength were able to subdue the Firbolgs. The Tuatha de Dannan were unable to stand against the might of Men, although their magic made them superior, and so they retreated into the green and the netherworld, the "underworld" (which is not, perforce, underground). Obscure and forever sundered from their Elven kin, they faded or in desperation interbred with mewslips and other dark faeries and became the leprauchans.
The area of Spain and Portugal they are talking about is the extreme north-western corner, "coincidentally" called Galicia, which is linguistically related to the word "Celt."
The people they are talking about were forced into that area by the last Ice Age, and then, when the glaciers retreated, they expanded into the rest of Europe maybe 10,000 BC.
The Y-chromosome haplogroup they are talking about is R1b.
My husband, whose ancestors came from England, and my father, whose ancestors came from Brittany, are both R1b, as is the vast majority of males whose ancestors came from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, Western France, Western Spain, and Portugal.
They aren't just R1b, they're also WAMH (Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Modal_Haplotype
About 70% of males in Britain and their descendents are R1b, and about 90% of males from Ireland, Wales, Western France, Western Spain, and Portugal. Many of those are also WAMH.
Since so many of the early European colonists of the Americas came from those regions, it's also among the most common Y-chromosome haplotypes in North America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b
Is it at all possible that the many flooding and deluge stories that our ancestors refer to could actually be referring to the melting of the glaciers at the end of the previous major Ice Age ? Obviously more water would create more rains and floods. But it is also possibly that the melting happened quickly. Like for example due to an increased solar output type of event ?
I was born in Cuba, came here @ 3 years old, and my ancestors were also from Asturias and Galicia. Wow! It's always great to meet another gallego.
I know all about the kilts, bagpipes, dance jigs, etc.
I can add you if you like?
Yes, thank you.
In my case, the problem of being a Scot, is you do not know if you are mostly Dal Riada (Milesian) or Pict (Indigenous Celtic People). My fathers clan came from the eastern area of Scotland. Now that may mean that I am more Pict then Scot. At any rate, most of us reading this thread are Celtic.
For the record....
If people ACTUALLY read Prof Bryan Sykes literature it is perfectly clear that what he is saying is that there are two lines of genetic archaeology to follow.
First is the female (mDNA) line, which shows that England (as does Scotland, Wales and Ireland) has almost 100% indigenous DNA - and by this we mean a pre-roman "Celtic" people....
On the male side(Y chromosome) England is on average about 67% pre-roman, ie "Celtic", with regions such as the south west or north west increasing to the same levels as found in parts of Scotland and Wales....
If we take these figures then the average person in England has their mothers mDNA, making them instantly 50% "Celtic" and then the 67% "Celtic" from their fathers - this makes the average English person about 83% of "Celtic" indigenous DNA.... this figure is not far off other parts of the isles and in parts of England greater than parts of Scotland!!
So, it seems, we are ALL "Celtic" if you want to use this term....
PS- Prof Sykes also states that the REAL Celts never actually made ANY genetic imprint on the Isles - we were all here PRE - CELTS and we do ourselves an historical injustice if we label ourselves Celts - we are a much older people than that would imply.....
It is amazing though that many of us have considered ourselves as 'Anglo-Saxons' in the past. The Angles and the Saxons were however Germanic invaders into the Isles and one can assume that invaders typically have a much smaller population then the invading country if we take into count the women and children existing within that country. So the invading Germanic DNA was eventually lost in the larger Celtic population ?
LOL
****
Bob Cousy
Yes. It has been estimated that the numbers of AngloSaxons were about 25,000.... It makes some sense as the population of Britain at that time would have been about 2-3 million..... Germany would be empty today if that number of Britons had been displaced and pushed West.
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. |
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So, if we’re Irish, then we’re Spanish, so can our kids list themselves as Hispanic?
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