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Swedish (State Owned) company labels Golan wines "made in Israel-occupied Syrian territories."
Jerusalem Post ^ | Jun. 7, 2006 | DAVID STAVROU

Posted on 06/07/2006 5:36:05 AM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

Sweden's state-owned alcohol retail monopoly, Systembolaget, has labeled Israeli Golan and Yarden wines as "made in Israel-occupied Syrian territories."

According to the company's spokesman, Bjorn Rydberg, the decision was made after clients complained about the previous label, which stated the wine was made in Israel. The change was made after the company consulted with the Swedish Foreign Ministry.

"It's the ministry's recommendation that we are following," Rydberg said. However, "because of the criticism, we will consider changing the label again," he said.

Although Swedish Foreign Minister Jan Eliasson and his Israeli counterpart, Tzipi Livni met recently to discuss the visa granted to Hamas, some tension still remains over the labelling issue.

In April, Sweden pulled out of a European military exercise because of Israeli participation. And in May, Sweden hosted Hamas minister Atef Adwan. Adwan, who was invited by local politicians, was granted a visa to visit Sweden, which he also used to visit other European countries.

Systembolaget's decision is "upsetting and unfair," said Annelia Enochson, from Sweden's Christian Democratic Party. "It means Israel receives special treatment, and it also politicizes the state-owned alcohol company."

Rydberg maintained that the company was not trying to make a political statement. "We have no foreign policy ambitions," he said.

Systembolaget was created in the 19th century to minimize alcohol-related problems by selling alcohol in a responsible way. According to Systembolaget, alcohol consumption in Sweden, which used to be among the highest in Europe, is now among the lowest because of the principle of no private profit from alcohol sales. The company offers about 3,000 brands of beer, wine and spirits including five Israeli wines, and its catalogue is considered one of the most extensive in the world.

Although the alcohol system isn't always convenient for consumers, who can't buy alcohol in regular shops, the majority of Swedes support it. Nonetheless, the company's image has been marred recently by scandal.

In the past year, some employees were found guilty of bribery, and the managing director, who is the prime minister's wife, was given a generous pension deal that broke government guidelines.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; Syria; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: anneliaenochson; atefadwan; bjornrydberg; eurabia; europeanunion; golanheights; hamas; israel; janeliasson; jerusalem; letshavejerusalem; livnisuccessstory; sweden; syria; systembolaget; tzipilivni; waronterror; yarden
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To: BenLurkin

Sweden has, for some time, been suffering the problems of immigration/assimilation that the French are suffering. There are areas of Malmo where the emergency personnel and police fear to tread in the Muslim dominated neighborhoods. Sharia'a law is practiced in some of these areas and the Swede gov't is afraid to step in and re-gain control. Scandanavia has been hit hard by their lax immigration/assimilation policies.


21 posted on 06/07/2006 6:33:57 AM PDT by unionblue83
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

Ahh yes, the Swedes who were too chicken-sh!t to fight the Nazis and stayed neutral during WWII.


22 posted on 06/07/2006 6:36:08 AM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: CondorFlight
Most of the borders of the Middle East are artificial creations of European diplomats (Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq); and have nothing to do with traditional ethinic homelands (Israel, Kurdistan, Armenia, etc.)

No, no, no you don't understand! These areas have always been Muslim arab even 5,000 years ago!

--- Nope, I can't do it. Even I, who can joke about nearly anything can't makeup a joke about this seething stupidity.

Trash jordanians out of arab occupied Israel now!!

23 posted on 06/07/2006 6:36:13 AM PDT by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: BenLurkin

yes!!


24 posted on 06/07/2006 6:48:17 AM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: RoadTest

They'll find that He's the one in charge of that universe, too. Doh!


25 posted on 06/07/2006 6:49:47 AM PDT by rightwingcrazy
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To: Redmen4ever
In principle, I see no reason why prohibiting Israel from annexing the Golan. As a practical matter, Israel has not done this, as it has desired to settle this matter,

Israel annexed the Golan Heights in 1981, though still open to negotiations. See the next post.

26 posted on 06/07/2006 6:56:23 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget


Funny they label this wine as being from occupied territories and the Swedes can be considered Muslim occupied territories...


27 posted on 06/07/2006 6:57:00 AM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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The Golan Heights

by Mitchell Bard

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/golan_hts.html


From the western Golan, it is only about 60 miles -- without major terrain obstacles -- to Haifa and Acre, Israel's industrial heartland. The Golan -- rising from 400 to 1700 feet in the western section bordering on pre­1967 Israel -- overlooks the Huleh Valley, Israel's richest agricultural area. In the hands of a friendly neighbor, the escarpment has little military importance. If controlled by a hostile country, however, the Golan has the potential to again become a strategic nightmare for Israel.

From 1948-67, when Syria controlled the Golan Heights, it used the area as a military stronghold from which its troops randomly sniped at Israeli civilians in the Huleh Valley below, forcing children living on kibbutzim to sleep in bomb shelters. In addition, many roads in northern Israel could be crossed only after probing by mine-detection vehicles. In late 1966, a youth was blown to pieces by a mine while playing football near the Lebanon border. In some cases, attacks were carried out by Yasir Arafat's Fatah, which Syria allowed to operate from its territory.

Israel's options for countering the Syrian attacks were constrained by the geography of the Heights. "Counterbattery fires were limited by the lack of observation from the Huleh Valley; air attacks were degraded by well-dug-in Syrian positions with strong overhead cover, and a ground attack against the positions...would require major forces with the attendant risks of heavy casualties and severe political repercussions," U.S. Army Col. (Ret.) Irving Heymont observed.

Israel repeatedly, and unsuccessfully, protested the Syrian bombardments to the UN Mixed Armistice Commission, which was charged with policing the cease-fire. For example, Israel went to the UN in October 1966 to demand a halt to the Fatah attacks. The response from Damascus was defiant. "It is not our duty to stop them, but to encourage and strengthen them," the Syrian ambassador responded. Nothing was done to stop Syria's aggression. A mild Security Council resolution expressing "regret" for such incidents was vetoed by the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, Israel was condemned by the UN when it retaliated. "As far as the Security Council was officially concerned," historian Netanel Lorch wrote, "there was an open season for killing Israelis on their own territory."

After the Six-Day War began, the Syrian air force attempted to bomb oil refineries in Haifa. While Israel was fighting in the Sinai and West Bank, Syrian artillery bombarded Israeli forces in the eastern Galilee, and armored units fired on villages in the Huleh Valley below the Golan Heights.

On June 9, 1967, Israel moved against Syrian forces on the Golan. By late afternoon, June 10, Israel was in complete control of the plateau. Israel's seizure of the strategic heights occurred only after 19 years of provocation from Syria, and after unsuccessful efforts to get the international community to act against the aggressors.

Six years later, in a surprise attack on Yom Kippur, the Syrians overran the Golan Heights before being repulsed by Israeli counterattacks. After the war, Syria signed a disengagement agreement that left the Golan in Israel's hands. [See map]

On December 14, 1981, the Knesset voted to annex the Golan Heights. The statute extended Israeli civilian law and administration to the residents of the Golan, replacing the military authority that had ruled the area since 1967.

Since 1974, Syria has adhered to the cease-fire on the Golan, largely because of the presence of Israeli troops within artillery range of Damascus. But during this time, Syria has provided a haven and supported numerous terrorist groups that attack Israel from Lebanon and other countries. These include the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP); the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Hezbollah and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine­General Command (PFLP­GC). In addition, Syria still deploys hundreds of thousands of troops-as much as 75 percent of its army-on the Israeli front near the Heights.

As the peace process faltered in 1996-97, Syria began to renew threats of war with Israel and to make threatening troop movements. Some Israeli analysts have warned of the possibility of a lightning strike by Syrian forces aimed at retaking the Golan. The Israeli Defense Forces have countered the Syrian moves; however, and -- to this point -- preserved the peace.

Prospects for Peace

For Israel, relinquishing the Golan to a hostile Syria could jeopardize its early-warning system against surprise attack. Israel has built radars on Mt. Hermon, the highest point in the region. If Israel withdrew from the Golan and had to relocate these facilities to the lowlands of the Galilee, they would lose much of their strategic effectiveness.

One possible compromise might be a partial Israeli withdrawal, along the lines of its 1974 disengagement agreement with Syria. Another would be a complete withdrawal, with the Golan becoming a demilitarized zone.

After losing the 1999 election, Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed reports that he had engaged in secret talks with Syrian President Hafez Assad to withdraw from the Golan and maintain a strategic early-warning station on Mount Hermon. Publicly, Assad continued to insist on a total withdrawal with no compromises and indicated no willingness to go beyond agreeing to a far more limited "non­belligerency" deal with Israel than the full peace treaty Israel has demanded.

The election of Ehud Barak stimulated new movement in the peace process, with intensive negotiations held in the United States in January 2000 between Barak and Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa.  These talks raised new hope for the conclusion of a peace treaty, but the discussions did not bear fruit. President Assad died in June 2000 and no further talks have been held as Assad's son and successor, Bashar has moved to consolidate his power. Rhetorically, Bashar has not indicated any shift in Syria's position on the Golan.

Israeli Settlements in the Golan Heights (February 1992)

Press reports suggest Israel has expressed a willingness to withdraw from a significant part of the Golan Heights if it can get from Syria security guarantees and normal relations.

In an interview with the Israeli Defense Ministry’s monthly Bitachon, Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh said the topographical concerns associated with withdrawing from the Golan Heights could be offset by demilitarization. "Our red line needs to be a defensible border," Sneh said, "a border where the chief of General Staff can come to the government or the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee and say: ‘From this line I can defend the State of Israel with minimum losses.’" Sneh added, "the deeper the demilitarization and the better the early warning, the more we will allow ourselves to be flexible topographically." Sneh also emphasized that Israel could not compromise on water sources.

Besides military security, a key to peace with Syria, Sneh said, would be the normalization of relations between the two countries. "When an Israeli thinks of normalization he wants to get up in the morning and take his wife and kids on a shopping trip to Damascus and come home," Sneh said. "The Syrians see normalization as an exchange of ambassadors and flight links – maximum. We need to demand that it be a peace warmer than with Egypt, closer to the type of peace we have with Jordan."

In the meantime, substantial opposition exists within Israel to withdrawing from the Golan Heights. The expectation of many is that public opinion will shift if and when the Syrians sign an agreement and take measures, such as reigning in Hezbollah attacks on Israel from southern Lebanon, that demonstrate a genuine interest in peace. And public opinion will determine whether a treaty is concluded because Barak has said any agreement must be approved in a national referendum (a law to this effect was passed under Netanyahu).

Absent dramatic changes in Syria's government and its attitude toward Israel; however, the Jewish State's security will depend on its retention of military control over the Golan Heights.


28 posted on 06/07/2006 6:57:15 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: StrongBlackWoman; kddid
Good point. If the label is accurate, no reason for whining.

You're correct, presuming Sweden labels imports consistantly. Occupied South Korea and Occupied Taiwan come to mind. If not, then Israel is being singled out.

29 posted on 06/07/2006 6:59:43 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: Fighting Irish

It's clear that there are no more Vikings remaining in Sweden..


30 posted on 06/07/2006 7:02:39 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

I used to think more highly of Sweden. Now, I can lump them right in with the French.


31 posted on 06/07/2006 7:06:31 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: kddid
The question is: Is Israel occupying the land where the grapes were grown?

Only commies use the loaded word "occupation".  The grapes are probably grown in the Golan Heights. Very good growing conditions there for apples and other fruits. Even a ski slope there. Before Israel took it in war, the Syrian rained shells down on Israel from the Golan

32 posted on 06/07/2006 7:14:29 AM PDT by dennisw (We should return to calling them Muhammadans -- Worshippers of Muhammad and maybe Allah)
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To: caver

Muslims will be Sweden's ruination. Muslims are worst possible immigrants. They are bad news.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-09,GGLG:en&q=fjordman+muslims+sweden


33 posted on 06/07/2006 7:16:50 AM PDT by dennisw (We should return to calling them Muhammadans -- Worshippers of Muhammad and maybe Allah)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

In Genesis 12:3 the Creator said to Abraham:

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse; and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

I'm going to contribute to the cursing of Sweden - I'm not going to buy ANYTHING made there, period.


34 posted on 06/07/2006 7:45:12 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: SJackson

Thanks for the correction regarding Isreal annexing the Golan in 1981. Israel is entirely within its rights to annex whatever it wants of lands taken from a defeated aggressor. Nevertheless, the area remains disputed (which is not to say that it is Syrian territory occupied by Israel).

Hopefully, one day, there will be a reasonable government in Syria that will negotiate a peace treaty with Israel. But, one would have to be foolish to think this is going to happen anytime soon. It is obvious that the regime in Damascus is a dictatorship that does what it feels it has to do to placate the jihadists that could threaten it.

As time marches on, the matter of the Golan becomes effectively settled. Real people cannot forever put off getting about the business of life, which means - among other things - constructing roads, homes and other buildings, developing farms, etc. The Golan of today is not the Golan that was siezed decades ago.


35 posted on 06/07/2006 7:52:35 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: freddymuldoon

LOL. The label should read "Made in Israel-Occupied Syrian Territory and sold in Muslim occupied Swedish Territory"


36 posted on 06/07/2006 9:25:00 AM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: unionblue83

I had occasion to meet a Swede who lives and works in Stockholm. When I mentioned the small village my grandparents hailed from, he literally seethed with contempt. It seems that as a city-dweller he resented his country cousins for living off welfare policies designed to support village life, while people like him in Stockholm were engaged in productive labor.

This reaction led me to suspect that the welfare state has created some deep divisions, even apart from Muslim immigration. The government apparently tries to paper over these issues and pretend that they don't exist.


37 posted on 06/07/2006 9:46:51 AM PDT by joylyn
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To: Redmen4ever

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-09,GGLG:en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=golan+rothschild&spell=1

Long before there was an Israel, much of the Golan was bought fair and square by the Rothschild family of Europe. This land was bought for Jewish settlement


38 posted on 06/07/2006 11:02:53 AM PDT by dennisw (We should return to calling them Muhammadans -- Worshippers of Muhammad and maybe Allah)
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To: dennisw; Redmen4ever
Long before there was an Israel, much of the Golan was bought fair and square by the Rothschild family of Europe. This land was bought for Jewish settlement

And he established the wineries. Wonder what they produced under nearly 20 years of Syrian control?

Israel’s Wine Awakening--Where Antiquity Merges with The Present
by George Medovoy

George Medovoy is a travel-and-wine columnist. His articles have been featured in the American Wine Society Journal as well as newspapers in the United States. “And behold this vine...was planted in a good soil by great waters that it may bring forth branches and that it may bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.” -- Ezekiel, 17.7

The novice winemakers discovered that under Ottoman rule, Eretz Israel was an inhospitable backwater plagued by few resources and disease-producing swamps. To their credit, however, they did succeed in establishing new vineyards.

However, it wasn’t until the 1980s that Israel’s modern wine industry came of age -- thanks to California technology, Israeli high-tech farming, and adventurous young winemakers.

In recent years, there’s been a major burst of investment in large new wineries and an explosion of boutique wineries. New plantings of quality grapes, mainly Cabernet and Merlot in the cool Upper Galilee and the Golan Heights -- Israel’s best growing areas – has increased recent harvests.

The country grows a versatile mix of grapes, including Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Chardonnay, and Sauvignon Blanc. Its wines have won major international prizes, as have its sparkling wines and dessert wines -- all part of a growing reputation for high-quality California-style varietals, with influences from France, South Africa and Australia. At the same time, the wineries are producing arguably the biggest variety of quality kosher wines in the world.

Geographically about the size of New Jersey and slightly bigger in population than New Zealand, Israel supports a remarkably diverse set of microclimates and wine regions (see Israel’s Wine Regions).

The progenitor of modern Israeli winemaking was Baron Edmund de Rothschild, a co-owner of Chateau Lafite. At the end of the 19th century, he sent varietals from southern France and French experts to Eretz Israel, to help Jewish pioneers gain a livelihood. Vineyards were planted in Zichron Ya’akov near the Carmel foothills and in Rishon Le Tzion, south of Tel Aviv.

I began my visit at the Golan Heights Winery, high above the Sea of Galilee, in the little town of Katzrin, the winery’s home base. A partnership of Kibbutzim and Moshav cooperative farms, the winery has 15 vineyards on the Golan Heights and one in the Upper Galilee, stretching from near the Sea of Galilee to the foot of snow-capped Mt. Hermon, Israel’s popular ski resort. Editor's Note: Golan Heights Winery has also partnered with Kibbutz Yi'ron and established a new winery in the Upper Galilee, the new winery's first wine was released last year.

The Golan Heights Winery has strong links to California. Two of its earliest advisers were Prof. Cornelius Ough of the UC Davis Viticulture and Enology Dept. and Peter Stern, the Saratoga-based international wine consultant.

“Our expertise came from California,” said winemaker Victor Schoenfeld, a Davis grad who worked at Mondavi. “The winery physically looks more like a California winery than a European one, our technological level more closely resembles California wineries....”

This northern winery sets the standard against which all other Israeli wines are measured. It is the only winery in the world to win the Grand Prix d’Honneur at Vinexpo for three years running. Golan revolutionized Israeli winemaking by planting international varietals, exercising total control from grape to bottle, and introducing new-world wine-making techniques with state-of-the-art equipment. Its technological level, unknown in the eastern Mediterranean, uses meteorological stations in each vineyard to generate computerized climatic reports of incredible sophistication.

Golan’s three labels are Yarden, Hebrew for the Jordan River; Gamla, the name of a Golan town of archaeological and historic interest that put up lengthy resistance against Roman attacks 2,000 years ago; and Golan.

Carmel inherited the original Rothschild wineries at Zichron Ya’akov and Rishon Le Zion. Since 1997, the winery has spent $6 million to improve the quality of its fruit. It also does its share of popularizing wine culture by operating “Best Cellars,” where I joined Israelis in one of the original Zichron Ya’akov wine cellars for a night of spirited Hebrew songs, dinner, and Carmel wine. In a further pursuit of quality, Carmel is also establishing a boutique winery for Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon at the opposite end of the country at Ramat Arad in the south.

Carmel and Golan together control over 90 percent of Israeli exports, and along with Barkan, dominate the domestic market.

I was soon back along the coast, as the red-and-blue Israel Railways train passed me on its northerly run to the port of Haifa. My objective: head south to the Tishbi Estate Winery near the Carmel Mountains.

Father and son Jonathan and Golan Tishbi greeted me outside their ranch-style tasting room. Shades of California, I whispered, everything had the look of a Napa Valley winery! Jonathan Tishbi had been a grower for the Carmel cooperative, but in 1985, he struck out on his own with advice from Sydney Back of Backsberg Winery in South Africa. The winemaker is Louis Pasco, who is also a qualified chef!

Among Tishbi’s best wines are whites that come off the southern Carmel Mountains, including its Sauvignon Blanc, softer and less aromatic than other International styles, and a wonderfully oaky Chardonnay.

In the cozy visitor center, where customers made healthy purchases of wine, Golan Tishbi noted refreshingly that visitors should “enjoy wine freely.”

“When they ask me what kind of wine it is,” he said, “they rarely get an answer. They’ve got to taste it and see if they like it first. This is for me a natural way of educating people -- to enjoy wine freely, no labels, no awards, although I have awards to show.

“I don’t recommend award-winning wines. I would appreciate it if people would buy the wine not because of its label. You know how much salt you like in your salad, you know how much olive oil, you know how much black pepper you need, and this is the way to drink wine: you adjust it to yourself and your companionship.”

Golan Tishbi speaks passionately about the unfolding drama of Israel’s wine awakening. It was wonderful, he told me at the family winery near the southern foothills of the Carmel Mountains, “to cultivate the land and cultivate our vines.”

“And no doubt about it,” he added firmly, “we can compete with the rest of the world in producing high-quality wines....”

And why not, I asked myself, in the oldest wine-producing region of the world? Here, antiquity merges with the present, as in marketing posters that remind consumers: “Blessed will be Noah, the first of the winemakers.”

In a daring move that will interest winemakers in hot regions everywhere, Tishbi is also growing Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Sauvignon Blanc and Chardonnay grapes with good results at Kibbutz Sde Boker deep in the Negev Desert. The winery also hopes to experiment they’re using brackish water on two salt-tolerant stocks, Salt Creek and Ruggeri.

A number of other medium-sized wineries are making an effort to improve quality, including Binyamina, which originated as a Rothschild perfume factory; Efrat, Israel’s oldest winery established in 1870; and Segal, a family winery and distillery, recently purchased by Barkan.

My visit to the wineries of Israel would not have been complete without recognizing the explosion in boutique wineries. Everyone seems to be getting into the act, a sign of Israel’s growing wine awareness. Two boutiques worthy of mention are Margalit and Domaine du Castel.

Margalit is headquartered in a very small building overgrown with orange and purple bougainvillea in the middle of a grapefruit grove in Hadera, a coastal town north of Tel Aviv.

“I try to make very dark, very heavy wine,” said, winemaker Yair Margalit, “which means it has a high body, a very concentrated flavor, almost always very fruity...like plums, black currants and a long after-taste.”

Margalit studied chemistry at UC Davis, but got hooked on winemaking after attending wine department lectures there. He has also authored books on small wineries and wine chemistry published by the Wine Appreciation Guild of San Francisco.

“The climate of Israel is very suitable to growing good red grapes,” he said, “because we have a lot of sun, we don’t have clouds in the summer, and in certain places we have very cool winters and moderate summers -- really great for growing red grapes. So I think Israel makes very good wine, and there is no reason why Israel should not be in the world markets.”

From Margalit, I turned eastward for Domaine du Castel Winery, which is gaining strong notice for its reds. Tucked away in the Judean Hills 10 miles west of Jerusalem at an altitude of 2,400 feet, Castel is a family winery run by self-taught Eli G. Ben-Zaken, who is the former owner of a popular Italian eatery; his son Ariel, who studied winemaking in Burgundy; and son-in-law Arnon Geva.

Ben Zaken is enamored of what he calls French-style wines, so it makes sense that the name of his winery should bear a French imprint. He described his wines as “very French and very classic.”

“These are fine wines, delicate and silky,” he said, “deep with layers of fruit, with a good aftertaste, which make them an excellent complement to good cuisine. Wine must not compete with food, it must complement it -- enhance its taste.”

Other boutique wineries of interest are Meron in the Upper Galilee and two others -- one at Kibbutz Tzora, and another at the Latrun Monastery in the Valley of Ayalon in central Israel, where 3,500 years ago, tradition has it, Joshua made the sun stand still.

There is no doubt that part of the appeal of Israel’s wine story is its exotic, rich history. However, the real story today, in its vineyards and its wineries, is the quest for quality, which makes Israel arguably the most progressive wine country in the whole of the eastern Mediterranean.

39 posted on 06/07/2006 11:07:39 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: Ella Vader

Great post. This kind of sandal-licking BS makes me sick.


40 posted on 06/07/2006 11:10:52 AM PDT by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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