Posted on 03/03/2006 6:43:55 PM PST by Mulder
EL PASO, Texas (AP) - A U.S. Border Patrol agent in El Paso shot at a group of people hurling rocks at him from across the Rio Grande on Thursday. No one was injured.
Robert Boatright, assistant chief patrol agent for the Border Patrol in El Paso, said the group of suspected illegal immigrants threw the rocks after running back across the river from the United States when they spotted the agent. They threw the rocks from about 25 yards away.
The agent, who Boatright did not identify, fired at least once.
Ciudad Juarez police officers went to the area but did not find anyone, Boatright said.
Thursday's confrontation, reported in the midst of the federal trial of two agents accused of unlawfully shooting a suspected drug smuggler and trying to hide the crime last year, is one more example of the rising danger along the U.S.-Mexico border, Boatright said. More than 770 assaults were reported last fiscal year, compared with just 396 in 2004.
The incident also coincided with a U.S. Senate hearing about increasing violence along the border.
So-called "rockings," as Border Patrol officials describe incidents like Thursday's, have become so prevalent in recent years that the federal agency has erected high-impact plastic glass barriers in spots along the Rio Grande where agents can park their vehicles in and around El Paso. Agents in some parts of the border are even starting to see "flaming rocks" - rocks wrapped in cloth, soaked in alcohol and lit on fire.
"We've had rock assaults where there was certainly sufficient velocity to break a windshield," Boatright said.
"Nobody did get hurt today but rocks can cause severe damage to someone's skull or face."
Two Border Patrolmen are on trial right now in El Paso for shooting an illegal. They are facing numerous criminal charges. Supposedly they shot the illegal (in the butt) and tried to cover up their actions. Media makes it sound like two rogue BP officers, but I heard there were several BP at that scene, including 2 supervisors. I do not know the facts of what happened, but it sure seems odd to me, I heard they saw or thought they saw a weapon on the illegal and felt threatened by his actions, he fled back across the border and Mexican officals say he was unarmed.
Border Patrol are between a rock and a hard spot, their life is in danger every time they go in the field. They are supposed to avoid shooting, yet they are regularly shot at and have rocks thrown at them, now I hear flaming rocks...if they shoot, then face criminal charges...this is beyond all reason that they are not allowed to defend themselves.
Good morning!!
I would not be surprised at all if the situation comes to that.
No doubt Mexico will sue the U.S. for defending itself...and some moron judge will agree with them.
At 25 yards: if he didn't drop his target, sack him immediately.
Respectfully, I disagree.
First off, sure in the context of throwing rocks, that wouldn't raise the necessary ruckus but our southern border has grown into one of the most violent spots in the nation. IIRC the kidnap rate in the area surpasses that of BRAZIL. 200 armed incursions by the Mexican army isn't enough to launch the type of project I mention? What is? I don't doubt that the ARNG is involved with border security, but I'll bet its to provide recon and intel for the BP and they have extremely strict rules of engagement.
IIRC a few years ago there was a border flare up and I think that the Federales fired into US territory and against one of our military units doing the duties you describe. Our guys returned fire (I don't recall if they killed anybody but I think maybe yes) and the resulting firestorm of official protest from Mexico and our own freakin' Congress caused some military careers to die. I haven't heard of any such actions since and I'd think the MSM would be all over it if it happened.
What about the purported connections between the smugglers and MS13 as well as AQ? What about the possibility (probability?) of WMD smuggling? The combination of drugs, illegals and terrorists is more than enough to undertake to build a militarized border, IMHO.
Given the current administration's relationship with our southern neighbors, do you truly think something will change prior to 2009?
No.
the Berlin Wall, and the rest of the Iron Curtain, were erected by Leftists, at the height of their power. It was not to keep the forces of capitalism out. It was to keep those in bondage to Socialism, in.
Irrelevant. We're not the USSR. We do not build the wall to keep our slaves inside but rather to keep the invading hordes out. General Patton once said that: Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man implying that if man built it, then man can overcome it. He never lived to see the Berlin Wall. Imagine a similar obstacle, but with modern technology coupled to a defense in depth and a quick reaction force. Might not stop a modern combined arms military attack, but I'll bet it would greatly decrease, if not eliminate the problems I've noted.
I don't doubt that the ARNG is involved with border security, but I'll bet its to provide recon and intel for the BP and they have extremely strict rules of engagement.
Basically, we're the Minuteman Project writ large. I was involved with the heartland missions ISO Noble Eagle for two years, before coming over here. And remember what I said: It's nowhere near the tempo it needs to be...
You further said:
What about the purported connections between the smugglers and MS13 as well as AQ? What about the possibility (probability?) of WMD smuggling? The combination of drugs, illegals and terrorists is more than enough to undertake to build a militarized border, IMHO.
And I would agree.
Let's examine the border scenario. USBP can't handle the mission now. They have to have ARNG backup, or the Minutemen. That means a borderwall must be manned by more troops. Where are they going to come from? Many people have said, "use the units in Germany", but the units in Germany are going somewhere else.
My own opinion? There were three nations named as the Axis of Evil. We've checked one. The next one is in the gunsight. I suspect NCA would like to hit all three targets before 2009.
Just the 1st AD. But there are many more units available in FRG. Or heck, use the 1st of the 509th (airborne) and bring them home from Italy. There's mech INF and armor in ROK that is restricted in the event of combat by terrain considerations, anyway. Korea is light infantry territory. OR use units already stationed at Fort Hood or Fort Carson with Hood as the maintenance site. Probably won't need arty assets but the air slice would be critical.
1/509 (ABN) - they're here, too. 1 AD just disbanded their DIVARTY and turned the battalion's into mounted infantry task forces. - better to work in their new AOR.
There's mech INF and armor in ROK that is restricted in the event of combat by terrain considerations, anyway. Korea is light infantry territory.
They're not restriced to ROK. 2/2 BCT was here just as I was arriving. And they went back to Carson. Speaking of Carson, 3 ACR is here as well.
Air assets on the border - we'd be thinking of Holloman, Davis-Monthan, maybe Edwards? Air force OB I'm not up on...
My favorite weapon when waving a handgun around is a bit over-reactive.
A great use is while at anchor boating and being harassed by waterskier wakes....just stand up and take a bead on them as the boat goes by too close....no need to fire. Somehow they understand the message without the need to send a ball bearing their way.
My favorite weapon when waving a handgun around is a bit over-reactive.
A great use is while at anchor boating and being harassed by waterskier wakes....just stand up and take a bead on them as the boat goes by too close....no need to fire. Somehow they understand the message without the need to send a ball bearing their way.
Actually I was thinking of army aviation. With the possible exception of AC135 Spectre Gunship, the fast movers aren't what's needed on the border.
I guess your overall point is that our forces are stretched thin and nobody is really sitting tight. Most every combat unit is getting a piece of Iraqi pie, right? Rotate in...rotate out. ~You do the Hokey Pokey and you turn yourself around....~ Well the troops will come home eventually. Any type of permanent border presence would have to be a pre-planned force. Such a unit is years down the road. Plenty of time to get ready.
Ehhhhhhhh, not quite...
No one's sitting tight, but we're not stretched. We still have a deep bench, even after three years of OIF rotations. For example, we'll see units forward in Europe, but not in FRG for much longer. 1AD pulling out is the first act.
Great idea. Arm the BP with rocket launchers. :)
Hey man an intafada on the border.
Hurling the rocks Americans refuse to hurl.
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