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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
The foundation of our civilization is Mosaic Law. The very idea human beings have any individual rights at all not subject to the whims of a monarch comes directly from Moses and obedience subject to commandments from Yahweh.

Every civil right we have comes from a monarch like person or individuals. When the founders put together the Constitution, it was written by those in leadership. The monarch's of their time. That they were wise enough to include certain civil liberties is wonderful. That they have been skirted, muted and temporarily or permanently taken away throughout our nations history just proves that they do come from individuals.

In addition, simply ask the remaining populations of the world how those rights given to Moses have worked for them.

Yes, for the most part what remains of our morality does allow us to believe in a higher being and the freedoms that were given to Moses. But what God gave to Moses can only be given to us by the power of men. Otherwise, what God gave to Moses would also be enjoyed by the balance of the world. I don't see that as current practice.

768 posted on 12/30/2005 7:56:07 AM PST by joesbucks
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To: joesbucks
Every civil right we have comes from a monarch like person or individuals. When the founders put together the Constitution, it was written by those in leadership. The monarch's of their time. That they were wise enough to include certain civil liberties is wonderful. That they have been skirted, muted and temporarily or permanently taken away throughout our nations history just proves that they do come from individuals.

The rights enumerated in the United States' Constitution are derived from here:

The Declaration of Independence...

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights…"

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

Yes, for the most part what remains of our morality does allow us to believe in a higher being and the freedoms that were given to Moses.

Morals and all of those associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition that some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

But what God gave to Moses can only be given to us by the power of men. Otherwise, what God gave to Moses would also be enjoyed by the balance of the world.

Not according to Yeshua, who told Pontius Pilate that the power to torture and execute him did not come from this earth.

The “balance of the world” as you say, according to the Biblical doctrine, has every opportunity to gain Salvation, something men cannot grant. We are mortal.

If rights come from men, then nothing should lawfully prevent me from becoming a god myself and deposing them by any means I choose, especially since inherent in your premise is that men are not equal.

In the days prior to Moses, Pharaoh was a god. After Moses, men were not considered to be gods at all, even by those suffering oppression under a monarch.

769 posted on 12/30/2005 9:22:46 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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