On Human Diversity: Why has the genetics community discarded so many phenotypes?

The Scientist ^ | 10-24-05 | Armand M. Leroi

[Pharmboy]

Nope...don't know Sailer. A woman that I work with who is a scientist sent it to me...thought the freepers would like to see it.

[Pharmboy]

Disagree. And, that is part of what Leroi talks about--there is a diversity of proteins in the races--this goes beyond skin deep.

[aculeus]

Leroi has guts.

Indeed ... and brains.

Some Leroi facts:

He's a Brit resident, born in NZ of Dutch parents (his father was a diplomat).

Now holds the position previously held by "Darwin's Bulldog" Thomas Huxley.

His book Mutants awarded The Guardian's Book of the Year reward in 2004 (2003?).

His most important (wink) paper found here

http://armandleroi.com/images/pdf2.gif

... that paper discussed here ...

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=16

[Pharmboy]

Interesting...thanks for the info.

[Coyoteman]

Race is really more about aesthetics than anything else. You look the way you do because your ancestors found that look attractive.

Classical racial traits (skin color, hair color, nose form, etc.) are adaptations to local climates.

Genetic traits (fingerprint patterns, blood types, mtDNA, etc.) track descent.

[Redcloak]

There are differences between groups, but these arise from either geographic isolation or mating practices. There are differences between Hawaiians and Tahitians, but most people would call them both Polynesian. There are differences between Chumash and Tongva, but we still call them both Indian. In one case, miles of ocean caused differences to arise; in the other, it was mating practices. If you're going to make minor genetic traits the basis for assigning race, then you'll slice-n-dice the species into groups so small that individual families would count as distinct races.

[Pharmboy]

No--you're going backwards, starting with the genes and going to the phenes. What I'm saying is that once we assign race (admittedly based on appearance and geography)--and look at protein polymorphisms or SNPs in the DNA--we find differences between groups. How they arose are likely due to multiple causes, eg., natural selection, founder effect (esp. on islands), sexual selection, neutral effetcs (Kimora) and genetic drift.

[PatrickHenry]

Thanks for the ping. This is interesting, but it's probably going to be a "blam" thread. As a courtesy to him, I don't ping the evolution list to "his" threads, because if I do, they tend to get too messy.

[blam]

Thanks for the ping.

GGG Ping.

[blam]

FYI.

Y Chromosome Reveals Founding Fathers (Giocangga)

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam, and PatrickH.

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[Dustbunny]

Interesting !!!

[dsc]

"Race is really more about aesthetics than anything else. You look the way you do because your ancestors found that look attractive. Studying race says more about what made Great^n-grandpa hot-to-trot than it says anything about you."

Living in Japan, I've had a lot of occasion to think about that, because so many females here are bow-legged, knock-kneed, and pigeon-toed. Yours was the only explanation I could come up with for that.

[ValerieUSA]

Why not check the variation in skull shapes within families first?

[dsc]

"Classical racial traits (skin color, hair color, nose form, etc.) are adaptations to local climates."

But in historical times, blondes with nice noses have had a reproductive advantage. Among American blacks today, those with lighter skin do.

[Talking_Mouse]

Thanks, I never knew this.

[Pharmboy]

See post 2...

:)

[Pharmboy]

Your point is??

[chesley]

You should also check out vdare.com, for interesting alternative discussions about ethnic and immigration issues.

[Coyoteman]

"Classical racial traits (skin color, hair color, nose form, etc.) are adaptations to local climates."

But in historical times, blondes with nice noses have had a reproductive advantage. Among American blacks today, those with lighter skin do.

My comments reflect earlier time periods, when people migrated slowly (i.e., pre-sailing ship and excluding organized warfare--Genghis Khan and the like).

That way there is plenty of time for adaptations as you go along.