Posted on 09/30/2005 2:09:51 PM PDT by truthfinder9
The problem arose with Thomas Huxley and other Darwinist propogandists, who insisted on a doctrinate anti-supernaturalism. They were far more interested in natural selection as a philosophical concept than as a scientific tool. Dawkins is still pushing this line. In their intolerance, they remind me of the Aristotelans who brought Galileo to his knees. His sin was that he challenged the scientific establishment of his time. The Church simply served as the tool of an older paradign being challenged by revolutionaries.
People have lost the distinction between primary and secondary causes. Cardinal Newman had no trouble with Darwin's theories since he conceded to science the field of secondary causes. But Huxley and others followed Kant and the German idealists in denying the knowability of primary causes. Dogmatically they insist that this is all we can know.
That's stupid. 'Evolutionism' lacks ritual, moral precepts, an organization...one might as well claim physics is a religion.
It is intelligence that is making such judgements. All our explanations come from minds. When we try to go the other way and go from things to minds, we have no explanations.
one might as well claim physics is a religion.
That's basically the goal. The strategy is to create a religious umbrella that covers all hard science. Evolution is the beachhead.
No, evolution has the burden of supporting its suppositions. ID doesn't have to prove anything. It can just ask the questions and point out the flaws. It's just a matter of time before this junk science called macro evolution will be removed completely from textbooks.
Absolutely.
I admire your honesty, but please turn yourself in.
Ritual: calling ID folks stupid. :)
Evolutionists have rituals. They go to conventions and deliver pious papers. They scoff at any challenge to evolution. They perform experiments according to a sacred format. They do so in utter faith that their theory is correct, even though it is, by definition, impossible to completely prove and by the rules of science, only valid as long as it best describes the evidence.
Evolutionists have moral precepts: Thou shalt not admit any science but evolution. Thou shalt not admit students into the field of biology who profess to hold non-evolutionary beliefs. Thou shalt define all of life in deterministic themes, and support them by finding "gay genes" and "fat genes." Thou shalt profess that evolution is capable of answering every question about the development of life in the natural universe. Though shalt not speak of the 'supernatural'--because evolution says so.
Evolutionist have organization. Just refer to the numerous letters signed by hundreds of evolutionists denouncing ID.
one might as well claim physics is a religion.
If physicists behaved the way evolutionists did, I would claim it was a religion. The difference is that many physicists have retained the humble nature of a true scientist who admits there are questions he may not have the theory or ability to answer. Evolutionists don't. It is by their faith that you will know them.
Have you seen Dembski's chessboard illustration before?
Science as it's currently practiced has done quite well over the last few centuries wouldn't you say? It would seem to me that scientists know what they're doing.
That's not ritual, that's observation.
They go to conventions and deliver pious papers. They scoff at any challenge to evolution. They perform experiments according to a sacred format. They do so in utter faith that their theory is correct, even though it is, by definition, impossible to completely prove and by the rules of science, only valid as long as it best describes the evidence.
They go to conferences, not conventions. Nobody performs experiments according to sacred formats; when I run an experiment, I'm usually making up protocols on the fly. And I have a great deal of confidence that most established science is correct, evolution just being one instance. If you want to see complete faith, ask a physical chemist about the second law.
Evolutionists have moral precepts: Thou shalt not admit any science but evolution. Thou shalt not admit students into the field of biology who profess to hold non-evolutionary beliefs. Thou shalt define all of life in deterministic themes, and support them by finding "gay genes" and "fat genes." Thou shalt profess that evolution is capable of answering every question about the development of life in the natural universe. Though shalt not speak of the 'supernatural'--because evolution says so.
The only people who talk about 'fat genes' are the popular press. You've evidently learned about science from the funny papers. Yet you seem to consider yourself an authority on it.
Evolutionist have organization. Just refer to the numerous letters signed by hundreds of evolutionists denouncing ID.
Oh, I see circulating an email makes an organization.
If physicists behaved the way evolutionists did, I would claim it was a religion. The difference is that many physicists have retained the humble nature of a true scientist who admits there are questions he may not have the theory or ability to answer. Evolutionists don't. It is by their faith that you will know them.
LOL! You should see the responses from physicists to Jay Richards' (co-author of the Privileged Planet) idiotic thoughts on Special Relativity. Physicists are a little quieter than biologists on ID only because they're less directly involved. But find some random physicist and run the idea of a 6000 year old universe by him. After he's stopped laughing, that is.
Science is not chess.
Your question has nothing to do with the "point" you were attempting to make, which is that teaching it in public schools is somehow a church/state violation. Any theory can be thought of by some people as supporting their religion. There are certainly plenty of atheists who see Darwinism that way.
It's not a scientific theory, it's a proseytizing mechanism for fundamentalist protestants. Dembski says so.
Liar. He did not say that it wasn't a scientific theory. That's why you guys are losing this public debate. You simply can not address the issue honestly.
You figured me out.
Actually, I'm not attached to the literal claim that evolutionism is a religion. I had a religion professor who argued aspects of football and baseball are religious. The point is not that evolution is a religion. Instead, it is that by applying principles of the study of religion to different things, one can come to a fuller understanding of them. There are aspects of evolutionists behavior that mimic the behavior of a zealot. I wouldn't push the argument much further unless we were drinking a beer.
That said, I concede the argument.
You do know that proponents of ID don't claim the universe or earth is 6,000 years old?
Also, you mentioned performing experiments. What is your field--what is your area of expertise?
How does Dembski's illustration not apply? Are you aware of a flaw with what he is saying, or is the obviousness of your post all you want to share?
How does Dembski's illustration not apply?
I'll stand on the obvious... Science is not chess. It is not a game. Showing something is not possible within the rules of a game doesn't prove or demonstrate anything. Or are we going to redefine 'game' now ;)
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