Posted on 07/17/2005 12:59:04 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
Ted Kennedy probably remembers burning potatos too!
I can well remember anti-Catholic discrimination throughout my own lifetime. The WASP establishment most certainly looked down on and discriminated against Irish, Italians, Poles, and other ethnic groups. Sure, they hired them to build the railways, and to boss the workgangs, but that hardly indicates social approval.
Al Smith lost his bid for the presidency because he was Catholic, and when Kennedy ran he had to promise never to be influenced by his Catholic beliefs, which I'm afraid was pretty much the case with him.
Irish and Jews were excluded from the better country clubs, and if they wanted to play golf they had to organize clubs of their own.
The Irish were excluded from politics in the early years, which is one reason why they developed such strong solidarity when their machines took over in New York, Boston, and elsewhere, much to the disgust of society.
Whether or not there were signs in the windows of shops saying "No Irish need apply," I don't know. When you think of it, it doesn't seem to likely that they wouldn't hire Irish as menials.
He calls it a myth, yet acknowledges that those signs ACTUALLY DID EXIST.
Since its start in 1851 the daily New York Times published exactly one NINA ad for males: a livery stable in Brooklyn in 1854 advertised for a teenage boy who could write, and NINA. No one can find NINA want ads for men in the other major newspapers that can be searched (such as the Brooklyn Eagle, Los Angeles Times, and Washington Post, nor in the numerous small town papers). The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, because a small proportion of hiring women (less than 10%) were reluctant to have a Catholic inside their home.
So is he arguing that it wasn't as prevalent here as it was in London? So? Ahh, but if he put it that way, it wouldn't have the shock value of screaming "MYTH".
The only potatos ol' Teddy's familiar with are those distilled for vodka.
Too bad Ted didn't remember how to pull someone out of a car.
My best friend is a 3rd generation American born of Swedish grandparents on both sides. She tells me horror stories that her parents told her about the treatment of Swedes in certain parts.
I was raised Catholic, and I remember traces of anti-Catholicism from my childhood. JFK actually had to sit in a meeting before the 1960 election with a bunch of Protestant ministers, including Norman Vincent Peale, to prove that he was American first and Catholic second. Most of this anti-Catholicism has died out. It certainly didn't affect my life negatively. When people try to stop me from doing something I want to do, it only makes me more determined to do it.
Didn't Cinton also remember burning churches, and Kerry remember being in Vietman one Christmas.
The dirty, dirty Dutch, they don't to much, but they're a damn sight better than the Irish.
There's the Potsdam Dutch and the Amsterdam Dutch and the Rotterdam Dutch and all the other Dam Dutch.
(According to H.L. Mencken, in the 19th Century America, Dutch included German, as in Pennsylvannia Dutch.)
Bill
The discrimination could occur even though the newspaper ads don't show it. For example, if you read the personal ads today, few of them will say "wife beaters need not apply" or "women with green hair need not apply." The absence of the statement means little.
That's true, especially when you consider that back in the 1800s there weren't the kind of anti-discrimination laws we have today. Companies were free to reject anyone for whatever reason and not fear retribution from the federal government.
Ted remembers blurrily seeing "No Drunk Womanizing Reprobate Crime-Family Irish Need Apply" signs on his Oldsmobile. That's why he ditched it.
(Check the St Louis Post Dispatch stories about voter fraud and you can find evidence that these 'flyers' are created internally at the direction of local party bosses to scare blacks out to the polls).
(Check the St Louis Post Dispatch stories about voter fraud and you can find evidence that these 'flyers' are created internally at the direction of local party bosses to scare blacks out to the polls).
Dunno about the signs, but if there was a hit song called "No Irish Need Apply," that seems to argue that it was already a prevalent idea in the culture.
My husband's family is Irish, from the NY area, and I've heard from the older members that they were called "white ni**ers." Sounds pretty prejudiced to me.
Whether or not there were signs in the windows of shops saying "No Irish need apply," I don't know. When you think of it, it doesn't seem to likely that they wouldn't hire Irish as menials.
Why would there be signs in the newspapers showing pictures of NINA? Exactly how many articles about the downtrodden Irish did these papers write. And how many pictures of signs would you expect in the papers?
On the otherhand my grandmoter relied on "clean Irish girls" to clean the house, cook and watch the children. She was devestated in 62 when her last one gave notice, and she was forced to hire black women. Who turned out to be just as good and who in the end, she loved dearly.
I read Born Fighting too....really enjoyed it and his scope in the book.
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