I'm here. Am I late? 3 minutes isn't much time ;)
This smart ass is here to remind you that what you see is nothing. Any of you guys have actually Navy experience?
I think Jeff actually makes money doing this and scaring you lambs.
Jeff tell us all how many ships have actually entered the Chinese fleet in the last 5 years and what classes they are? What is expected in 5 years?
Why do they have a manpower shortage in their Navy?
What you call Aegis "like" is a fraud.
Please tell me what is Aegis like about that ship? The panels? Please tell us what Aegis is then.
What you call a stealth ship is a fraud. That ship is anything but stealthy, ask any person with radar knowledge.
Their subs are some of the worse in the world. A defense contractor I know who is an acoustical expert on subs, describes their subs as sounding like "forks in a blender".
When did they lauch their SSBN? Is it the one they took the missiles off of a few years ago because it was dangerous? Their only SSBN is expected in 2010, fee free to check with Mr. Pike.
How is the Han class subs thay have that leaks radiation?
Do the ChiComs have stealth aircraft? Or UAVs in service?
Do they have an SURTASS?
Do they have an active aircraft carrier?
Can I take your post and put it on a defense web site I know and put the results here?
Stop the cool-aid-trip Jeff.
Stop selling your product, you are scaring people over something our military is already coverying.
Type 051C, DDG, Another new class of area defense destroyers
Type 052C Lanzhou DDG area defense destroyer. Phased array radar, VLS. Aegis like battle management
Type 052B, DDG, Guangzhou, general purpose guided missile destroyer
Proj 956, Hangzhou DDG, Chinese version of the Russian Sovremenny destroyer
Type 054, Ma'anshan FFG, general purpose guided missile frigate
Type 093, SSN, New nuclear powered attack submarine
Type 094, SSBN, New nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine
Type 039, Song SS Advanced diesel electric attack submarine
Proj 636, Yuanzheng SS, Chinese version of advanced Russian Kilo diesel electric attack submarine
Type 072-III, Large Amphibious assault ship
Type 2208, Guided missile Litoral Combat Craft, Advanced, stealthy, wave-piercing catamaran
Stop thinking about today, and start thinking about 10, 20, and even 50 years into the future.
Thanks for your comments. I'm sure many people in 1930 were saying the same thing about Japan and Germany.
I do not have to use insults or vitriol to put forth my opinion...or call you names. You lessen your own position when you do so.
The fact is, the Chinese are producing eleven new classes of vessels as we speak. Many in this administration and the military are beginning to recognioze it. I know we have been distracted and rightfully so by the WOT. But we have also changed a lot of doctrine to face in that direction while discounting and not planning adequately (IMHO) for a potential for major conflict wioth large nation states who have enormous production capanbility.
Here are some links regarding some of the articles regarding the same from the last few weeks:
Experts Warn China Capable of Attacking Taiwan
Rumsfeld warns on China military
U.S. struggles on China-war planning - top officer
Checking the threat that could be China
PV77, I am not intimidated or put off by your accusations or projections regarding my own motivations. You can say and believe whatever you wish. In fact, I welcome your ideas and thoughts. They do not detract from or necessarily negate the message of warning and vigilance I seek to put out.
I'm happy to let people decide for themselves.
As to what the Chinese are producing in terms of modern designes in the last few years...here it is:
Type 051C DDG, 1 built another building
Type 052C DDG, 2 built another building
Type 052B DDG, 2 built
Proj 956 DDG (Russia), 2 acquired, 2 more coming
Type 167 DDG, i built
Type 051 DDG, 2 built
Type 054 FFG, 2 built, another building
Type 053 FFG, 4 built, 3 building, 3 more on order
Type 2208 FAC, 4 built, more building
Type 520T FFL, 5 Built
Type o73-III, Large Amphib, 2 built, 2 building
Type 079, Medium Amphib, 10 built, more building
Type Yaun, SS, 2 built, more building
Typoe 039, SS, 5 built, 2 building
Proj 877/636, Kilo SS (Russia), 4 acquitred, 8 more coming
Type 093 SSN, 1 building
Type 094 SSBN, 1 building
That's a lot of building and doesn't account for all of the hull numbers seen in the pictures above under construction...so they are building even more. It also represents a phenominal increase in their capability, quantitatively and qualitatively.
Again, you can sneer, you can right it off, you can think whatever you want. I am concerned and feel to express that concern. That is all.
A nasty faced blond, wearing a scarf, "Save the Planet" Pin and glasses on the end of her nose, gets on a plane and finds herself seated next to a handsome businessman.
She immediately turns to him and makes her move. "You know," she says, "I've heard that flights will go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger. So let's talk."
"What would you like to discuss?", says the businessman
"Oh, I don't know," says the blond. "How about THE RAPID GROWTH & MODERNIZATION OF THE RED CHINESE NAVY?"
"Okay," he says. "That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff -- grass. Yet the deer excretes little pellets, the cow turns out a flat patty, and the horse produces muffins of dried poop.
Why do you suppose that is?" She is dumbfounded. Finally she replies, "I haven't the slightest idea."
"So tell me," says the businessman, "How is it that you feel qualified to discuss THE RAPID GROWTH & MODERNIZATION OF THE RED CHINESE NAVY when you 'don't know shit'? Are you drunk or just coming home from another government paid conference where nothing got done, except wasting our tax money?
I agree that a lot of the products we see in these photos may be the naval equivalent of a child's first clay "ash tray". But look back at the back-year Jane's reproductions, and look at the examples of the old coal-burning U.S. Navy, ships that were built for the Great White Fleet back in the 1890's with Joe Cannon's "billion-dollar Congress" spending spree. They probably didn't scare any of the major naval powers of the day, but they were a foreshadowing of what was to come, the fully competent big ships that began to come down the ways in 1910-1914.
Think about it.
You just keep on covering your eyes, ProudVet. After all, "It Can't Happen Here", right? That's what we thought on 6 December 1941. "Those squinty-eyed, bucktoothed Japs couldn't possibly threaten the mighty U.S. Navy".
Look up the word "hubris" sometime. The person who believes that his nation is invincible is whistling past the graveyard of history.
And, by the way, I do have Navy experience -- enough to know that no fleet is invincible when confronted with too many of the bad guys. In a real war, high technology, superior weapons, and better warriors trump mere numbers, but only to a point. As Stalin said, "Quantity has a quality all its own". Let us not forget that the Allies beat the better-armed, better-trained Axis by sheer weight of numbers -- in other words, by outproducing them.
Let us also not forget that thanks to free trade policies we don't have the industrial capacity to outproduce China any more. They have the factories, the shipyards, and the ability to take control of the oil resources of Southeast Asia. Yes, our tech is better, but all the fancy gizmos in the world won't make up for our inability to replace ships and aircraft quickly and in masive numbers (or to supply our warfighters with petroleom, oil, and lubricants from domestic sources.) In World War II terms, we are the technologically superior Germans; they are the industrious Russians. Keep that in mind the next time you feel the urge to scoff at the Chinese navy