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Archimedes manuscript yields secrets under X-ray gaze
PhysOrg.com ^ | 20 May 2005 | Staff

Posted on 05/21/2005 4:14:32 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

click here to read article


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To: KC_for_Freedom
The end of the classical era was not caused by a growth in Christianity but rather the other way around. When the Asian tribes overwhelmed the already weakened Roman Empire and all of the social infrastructure collapsed, people turned to the Church as the new center of life, culture, everything. Being Christian became synonymous with being European as opposed to those Asian types who were killing and marauding.

This was largely the result of St Augustine's book "City of God".

It didn't take long before the mindset was established that doing things the Classical way was the right way. Any deviation from what the Greeks/Romans had done was considered in poor form. This was what renaissance men like Da Vinci sought to counter.

Those who hate religion often conveniently forget that it was the Church (and ironically the Moslems) that preserved the knowledge of the ancients. The Church was also the principal patron of those that today we would call scientists. You could fill a book with stupid things that were done in the name of religion but a fair assesment, I believe, would show that the Church aided rather than hindered the growth of knowledge during the dark ages.

61 posted on 05/22/2005 12:39:16 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Proud parent of Vermont's 6th grade state chess champion.)
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To: longshadow
Not to mention that we would have skipped the Dark Ages.... a period of human history we could have done without.... Anti-war scum-sucking liberals took over in Rome and the civilized world was sacked and pillaged repeatedly by barbarian invaders. Could happen if Clintugla gets back in the WhiteHouse. :-P
62 posted on 05/22/2005 12:51:45 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: Straight Vermonter

The role of the Church in many areas was similarly two-edged. I have spent many years playing in semi-professional and professional orchestras. I know that the early Church squelched music for religious purposes and it took many years for it to embrace music. BUT, when it did it spawned great works, of course, especially Bach. All of our current clasical music heritage can be traced back to church origins. OTOH what would our music be like if the church had embraced it earlier? Maybe better and maybe worse. I wish that the Dark Age Church had allowed more musical expression earlier, even at the cost of losing Bach et al., because I think political artistic restriction is bad. What would things be like if there had been a Hildegard von Bingen 1000 earlier?

Of course it wouldn't have been the Dark Ages if there wasn't repression, would it?

(There are always things to contemplate).


63 posted on 05/22/2005 8:05:22 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: JasonC

But could either of them read Greek? Aquinas could not, although he had the benefit of particulary good translations.


64 posted on 05/22/2005 9:41:17 AM PDT by pierrem15
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To: pierrem15
Certainly. Bacon wrote extensively on the importance of learning languages, knew greek and hebrew, made many translations, etc. Albertus was Acquinas' teacher, and was responsible for reintroducing much of greek philosophy to Europe, also the works of the Arabs including their commentaries, the general rehabilitation of Aristotle within the church (which Acquinas took from Albertus as his designated life-work, working from Arabic commentaries and especially Averroes), etc.

In fairness to the claims being made on this thread, they are both a century after this particular book was apparently scrubbed. And the particular owner may have been in the situation you describe. But the idea that no one in the high middle ages was learned enough to appreciate it is simply a completely false prejudice of ignorant people in modern times, sneering at medievals as such.

There was plenty of ignorance in that day. There is plenty of ignorance now (look at history tests of college freshman if you doubt it - and the tabloids, and pop culture, and the third world, and Islamic nutjobs, etc etc). There were peaks of learning then as there are peaks of learning now.

65 posted on 05/22/2005 10:58:21 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: Bear_Slayer

"He preferred to take cold baths, then the whim hit him. "I think I'll take a hot bath." he found a missing appendage . . . and the rest is history. :-)"

By your logic, it must have been a cold bath, otherwise as this mysterious appendage began to grow his volume would have increased and he'd still be Eurekaless to this day.


66 posted on 05/22/2005 11:14:46 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: Erasmus
[Archimedes hasn't had a good thread lately.]

s/thread/screw/

ROFL!!!!


67 posted on 05/22/2005 1:32:04 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: furball4paws
...still endemic in areas of NM and AZ...

Land of the Flea and Home of the Plague.

We have Hanta virus too.

68 posted on 05/22/2005 8:22:08 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: PatrickHenry

So you could screw up enough courage to leverage this into a wedge document?


69 posted on 05/22/2005 8:23:47 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
A ping, and a similar story to supplement:
The Mystery of Archimedes
by Ned Potter
October 20, 2000
In 1998, an anonymous collector bought the book at auction -- not for its looks, but for what's hidden inside: the mathematical genius of the ancient Greek Archimedes. It is believed that Archimedes wrote his original theories about 300 years before Jesus was born. Then, around the year 1000 A.D., his writings were copied into the book that the collector bought... [A]round 1200 AD, a monk took the book, scraped off the original ink and re-used the pages for a prayer book.
[probably a dead link, from the hard drive files]
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

70 posted on 05/22/2005 9:03:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Neither has Posidippus of Pella, although he did put in my windows.
A Mummy's Bequest: Poems From a Master
by John Noble Wilford
Nov 26, 2002
Written in the third century B.C., the poems on the papyrus appear to be 112 collected works of Posidippus of Pella, a prominent writer of epigrams, and constitute what scholars say is the oldest surviving example of a Greek poetry book... The papyrus scroll held one striking surprise: the absence of erotic verse. Judging by his previously known poems, mainly preserved in an anthology from about 100 B.C., Posidippus had a lusty interest in sex.

71 posted on 05/22/2005 9:13:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/659052/posts?page=45#45


72 posted on 05/22/2005 9:15:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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Google search worked better:

Archaeologists discover alma mater of Archimedes
The Los Angeles Times | May 9, 2004 | Thomas Maugh II
Posted on 05/09/2004 11:03:56 PM PDT by SteveH
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1132565/posts?page=2


73 posted on 05/22/2005 9:21:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: PatrickHenry
We might have been 1,000 years more advanced from where we are now.

Take out history's top 300 thinkers, and human society would become a liberal's dream -- ignorant tribes living marginally off the land, poor, hopeless victims of nature...

74 posted on 05/22/2005 9:32:10 PM PDT by GOPJ ( Bright lines between soldiers and citizens blind both.)
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To: pierrem15
If hundreds of thousands of armed men roamed across North American killing, raping, looting and pillaging, not just for years but for decades stretching on into centuries, how many books would be left in America?

Exactly..then add Plague and colder weather on top of that to get an even better picture.

75 posted on 05/22/2005 10:00:34 PM PDT by Cruising Speed
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To: PatrickHenry

This is really great news !!


76 posted on 05/22/2005 10:26:52 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: PatrickHenry
Evo Baby

Your furbaby is lonesome!:)

77 posted on 05/22/2005 10:33:06 PM PDT by restornu (“No president in American history understood the timber of the American character better than Reagan)
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To: Junior

Who copied it out in the first place? Oh, that's right...


78 posted on 05/22/2005 10:34:34 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: furball4paws
I know that the early Church squelched music for religious purposes and it took many years for it to embrace music.

Wrong. Christianity has always been musical. See Ephesians 5:19.

OTOH what would our music be like if the church had embraced it earlier? Maybe better and maybe worse. I wish that the Dark Age Church had allowed more musical expression earlier, even at the cost of losing Bach et al., because I think political artistic restriction is bad.

What you're looking for is Gregorian Chant, and yes, it exists.

79 posted on 05/22/2005 10:45:04 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: furball4paws
The 6000 year doctrine (as I call it) was prevalent in the Middle Ages. ... I don't know why.

The 6000 year doctrine was created by correlating three widely separated sections of the Bible:

1. God created everything in six days and rested on the seventh (Genesis 1:1 - 2:3).

2. The Bible says a thousand years is like one day to God (Psalms 90:4 & 2 Peter 3:8).

Therefore, if creation occurred in six days (followed by a day of rest), then everything would wrap up in six thousand years (followed by the one thousand year millennial kingdom).

I'm not sure why anyone ever chose to make this correlation, but, as you said, it was a commonly held belief.

80 posted on 05/22/2005 11:09:48 PM PDT by SWake (Curator of West Wackistan)
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