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EXTRAORDINARY DISCOVERY UNLOCKS SECRETS OF THE ANCIENTS
The Scotsman ^ | Sat 16 Apr 2005 | (Drudgereport.com) Scotsman.com

Posted on 04/16/2005 5:01:00 PM PDT by tricky_k_1972

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To: tricky_k_1972

Can't wait to read the transcripts.


61 posted on 04/17/2005 7:36:15 AM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: tricky_k_1972; Constitution Day; martin_fierro

additional, later thread:

WOW (Breakthrough in interpreting Oxyrhynchus Papyri)
the Light of Reason | 4/17/05 | Arthur Silber?
Posted on 04/17/2005 6:14:39 AM PDT by bitt
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1385405/posts


62 posted on 04/17/2005 7:56:28 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Monday, April 11, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: Drammach

hee hee, but wouldn't that be "sunny?"


63 posted on 04/17/2005 9:00:05 AM PDT by Finger Monkey (H.R. 25, Fair Tax Act - A consumption tax which replaces the income tax, SS tax, death tax, etc.)
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To: PatrickHenry; Doctor Stochastic

Daedalus: "I just flew in from Crete, ... and boy are my arms tired!!"


64 posted on 04/17/2005 9:27:18 AM PDT by dread78645 (Sarcasm tags are for wusses.)
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To: dread78645

Waxing eloquent or just winging it?


65 posted on 04/17/2005 9:35:53 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: tricky_k_1972
plus a series of Christian gospels which have been lost for up to 2,000 years.

What, the Catholic Church didn't hide or destroy all of the "lost" gospels? Enough with my sarcasm.

While it would be interesting to read anything related to either the Old or New Testament. I find the chances of something that was lost" to be highly unlikely - most of the so-called "lost" gospels have been found and known about for centuriesand were left out by the "editors" (not the right word, but you know what I mean) of the Bible/New Testament for good reason. There was even a book back in the 1980s or 1970s about the "lost" gospels and most of them were proven to have been written centuries after the New Testament.

It's entirely possible that the "lost" gospels mentioned in the article are copies of the Gospels of Thomas, Phillip, Mary, etc., and I can see this old debate being dragged back out into the light (especially with the success of a certain book about a certain famous painting and scientist).
66 posted on 04/17/2005 4:14:31 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: dread78645; Doctor Stochastic
From Julius Caesar's lost diary:

Cleopatra said, upon meeting me, "Hey, big boy. Is that a sword under your toga, or are you happy to see me?

67 posted on 04/17/2005 4:44:52 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: tricky_k_1972
The Oxford documents form part of the great papyrus hoard salvaged from an ancient rubbish dump in the Graeco-Egyptian town of Oxyrhynchus more than a century ago. The thousands of remaining documents, which will be analysed over the next decade, are expected to include works by Ovid and Aeschylus, plus a series of Christian gospels which have been lost for up to 2,000 years.

Just a tad tidbit at the very end of the article, to prime us up for the soon to arrive (roughly 10 years) nonfiction part of the current fiction craze (The DaVanci Code et al). We are under the control of great powers of course ... priming us Christians to doubt, first w/ the great Dan Brown and his research ... and then ... this development.

Let's see ... my understanding was the extent copies of any N.T. doc were not older than around 330 AD ... but I could be wrong. But anyway ... if we get gospels in the 100 AD range, why, it gets real interesting .... and then the final assult and hammer blows against the crazy Christians can begin ... FINALLY. All we needed was infrared technology!

68 posted on 04/17/2005 5:48:10 PM PDT by gobucks
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To: SunkenCiv
Eureka! Extraordinary discovery unlocks secrets of the ancients

For more than a century, it has caused excitement and frustration in equal measure - a collection of Greek and Roman writings so vast it could redraw the map of classical civilisation. If only it was legible.

Now, in a breakthrough described as the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail, Oxford University scientists have employed infra-red technology to open up the hoard, known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and with it the prospect that hundreds of lost Greek comedies, tragedies and epic poems will soon be revealed.

In the past four days alone, Oxford's classicists have used it to make a series of astonishing discoveries, including writing by Sophocles, Euripides, Hesiod and other literary giants of the ancient world, lost for millennia. They even believe they are likely to find lost Christian gospels, the originals of which were written around the time of the earliest books of the New Testament.

The original papyrus documents, discovered in an ancient rubbish dump in central Egypt, are often meaningless to the naked eye - decayed, worm-eaten and blackened by the passage of time. But scientists using the new photographic technique, developed from satellite imaging, are bringing the original writing back into view. Academics have hailed it as a development which could lead to a 20 per cent increase in the number of great Greek and Roman works in existence. Some are even predicting a "second Renaissance".

Christopher Pelling, Regius Professor of Greek at the University of Oxford, described the new works as "central texts which scholars have been speculating about for centuries".

Professor Richard Janko, a leading British scholar, formerly of University College London, now head of classics at the University of Michigan, said: "Normally we are lucky to get one such find per decade." One discovery in particular, a 30-line passage from the poet Archilocos, of whom only 500 lines survive in total, is described as "invaluable" by Dr Peter Jones, author and co-founder of the Friends of Classics campaign.

The papyrus fragments were discovered in historic dumps outside the Graeco-Egyptian town of Oxyrhynchus ("city of the sharp-nosed fish") in central Egypt at the end of the 19th century. Running to 400,000 fragments, stored in 800 boxes at Oxford's Sackler Library, it is the biggest hoard of classical manuscripts in the world.

The previously unknown texts, read for the first time last week, include parts of a long-lost tragedy - the Epigonoi ("Progeny") by the 5th-century BC Greek playwright Sophocles; part of a lost novel by the 2nd-century Greek writer Lucian; unknown material by Euripides; mythological poetry by the 1st-century BC Greek poet Parthenios; work by the 7th-century BC poet Hesiod; and an epic poem by Archilochos, a 7th-century successor of Homer, describing events leading up to the Trojan War. Additional material from Hesiod, Euripides and Sophocles almost certainly await discovery.

Oxford academics have been working alongside infra-red specialists from Brigham Young University, Utah. Their operation is likely to increase the number of great literary works fully or partially surviving from the ancient Greek world by up to a fifth. It could easily double the surviving body of lesser work - the pulp fiction and sitcoms of the day.

"The Oxyrhynchus collection is of unparalleled importance - especially now that it can be read fully and relatively quickly," said the Oxford academic directing the research, Dr Dirk Obbink. "The material will shed light on virtually every aspect of life in Hellenistic and Roman Egypt, and, by extension, in the classical world as a whole."

The breakthrough has also caught the imagination of cultural commentators. Melvyn Bragg, author and presenter, said: "It's the most fantastic news. There are two things here. The first is how enormously influential the Greeks were in science and the arts. The second is how little of their writing we have. The prospect of having more to look at is wonderful."

Bettany Hughes, historian and broadcaster, who has presented TV series including Mysteries of the Ancients and The Spartans, said: "Egyptian rubbish dumps were gold mines. The classical corpus is like a jigsaw puzzle picked up at a jumble sale - many more pieces missing than are there. Scholars have always mourned the loss of works of genius - plays by Sophocles, Sappho's other poems, epics. These discoveries promise to change the textual map of the golden ages of Greece and Rome."

When it has all been read - mainly in Greek, but sometimes in Latin, Hebrew, Coptic, Syriac, Aramaic, Arabic, Nubian and early Persian - the new material will probably add up to around five million words. Texts deciphered over the past few days will be published next month by the London-based Egypt Exploration Society, which financed the discovery and owns the collection.

A 21st-century technique reveals antiquity's secrets

Since it was unearthed more than a century ago, the hoard of documents known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri has fascinated classical scholars. There are 400,000 fragments, many containing text from the great writers of antiquity. But only a small proportion have been read so far. Many were illegible.

Now scientists are using multi-spectral imaging techniques developed from satellite technology to read the papyri at Oxford University's Sackler Library. The fragments, preserved between sheets of glass, respond to the infra-red spectrum - ink invisible to the naked eye can be seen and photographed.

The fragments form part of a giant "jigsaw puzzle" to be reassembled. Missing "pieces" can be supplied from quotations by later authors, and grammatical analysis.

Key words from the master of Greek tragedy

Speaker A: . . . gobbling the whole, sharpening the flashing iron.

Speaker B: And the helmets are shaking their purple-dyed crests, and for the wearers of breast-plates the weavers are striking up the wise shuttle's songs, that wakes up those who are asleep.

Speaker A: And he is gluing together the chariot's rail.

These words were written by the Greek dramatist Sophocles, and are the only known fragment we have of his lost play Epigonoi (literally "The Progeny"), the story of the siege of Thebes. Until last week's hi-tech analysis of ancient scripts at Oxford University, no one knew of their existence, and this is the first time they have been published.

Sophocles (495-405 BC), was a giant of the golden age of Greek civilisation, a dramatist who work alongside and competed with Aeschylus, Euripides and Aristophanes.

His best-known work is Oedipus Rex, the play that later gave its name to the Freudian theory, in which the hero kills his father and marries his mother - in a doomed attempt to escape the curse he brings upon himself. His other masterpieces include Antigone and Electra.

Sophocles was the cultured son of a wealthy Greek merchant, living at the height of the Greek empire. An accomplished actor, he performed in many of his own plays. He also served as a priest and sat on the committee that administered Athens. A great dramatic innovator, he wrote more than 120 plays, but only seven survive in full.

Last week's remarkable finds also include work by Euripides, Hesiod and Lucian, plus a large and particularly significant paragraph of text from the Elegies, by Archilochos, a Greek poet of the 7th century BC.

69 posted on 04/17/2005 7:19:01 PM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: tricky_k_1972
Ancient Chinese secret?


70 posted on 04/17/2005 7:24:52 PM PDT by flying Elvis
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To: gobucks
"plus a series of Christian gospels which have been lost for up to 2,000 years."

That certainly shows the writers level of knowledge.

Jesus died in A.D. 33. First written record; maybe A.D 100? It was, I believe, all verbal for awhile.

I wasn't aware that the New Testament was written before the death of Christ.
71 posted on 04/17/2005 7:31:48 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland
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To: vannrox

Thanks vannrox.


72 posted on 04/17/2005 8:41:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Monday, April 11, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: tricky_k_1972
Maybe we’ll find the secret formula for Greek Fire.


73 posted on 04/17/2005 8:50:45 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: vannrox

Ditto thanks...


74 posted on 04/18/2005 4:41:25 AM PDT by gobucks
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The Vanished Library The Vanished Library
by Luciano Canfora
tr by Martin Ryle


75 posted on 04/18/2005 9:53:13 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Monday, April 11, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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another more recent topic with add'l info.

Decoded at last: the 'classical holy grail' that may rewrite the history of the world
RealOpinion.com
Posted on 04/17/2005 11:04:21 PM PDT by illbill
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1385767/posts


76 posted on 04/19/2005 8:27:54 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Monday, April 11, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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a bttt:

Decoded at last: the 'classical holy grail' that may rewrite the history of the world
RealOpinion.com
Posted on 04/17/2005 11:04:21 PM PDT by illbill
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1385767/posts

Infra-Red Brings Ancient Papyri to Light
Sci-Tech Today | April 19, 2005
Posted on 04/20/2005 9:14:51 PM PDT by nickcarraway
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1387916/posts

Papyrus Reveals New Clues to Ancient World (New Sophocles, Lucian: More)
National Geographic News | April 25, 2005 | James Owen
Posted on 04/28/2005 12:55:52 AM PDT by nickcarraway
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1392667/posts

Some Recently Published NEW TESTAMENT Papyri from Oxyrhynchus: Overview and Assessment
Tyndale Bulletin 51 | April 15, 2005? | Peter M. Head
Posted on 04/16/2005 8:54:33 PM PDT by rface
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385284/posts

Testing the Faith: 666 wrong number of prophetic beast?
Wold Net Daily | 05/08/05 | satff
Posted on 05/08/2005 7:12:27 PM PDT by Perdogg
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1399257/posts

WOW (Breakthrough in interpreting Oxyrhynchus Papyri)
the Light of Reason | 4/17/05 | Arthur Silber?
Posted on 04/17/2005 6:14:39 AM PDT by bitt
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1385405/posts

regarding similar work elsewhere:

Experts urge race against time to unearth last secrets of Herculaneum's lost library
The Scotsman | Wed 27 Mar 2002 | Tim Cornwell
Posted on 04/03/2002 4:32:14 PM PST by Korth
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/659052/posts
[message 45 has a collection of links to Herculaneum topics]
45 posted on 02/14/2005 8:43:15 AM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/659052/posts?page=45#45


77 posted on 07/11/2005 11:30:02 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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78 posted on 07/11/2008 9:03:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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