DCF: Schiavo Not Abused Or Exploited

The Associated Press ^ | April 16, 2005

[queenkathy]

It would depend on how close we are geographically! LOL Nice Profile page BTW. Beautiful pictures. One can tell you are a big Bush supporter. See we have that in common all ready...

[L.N. Smithee]

SCHIAVO: Well, I went and talked to Dr. Mulroy about it.

Q. And what was Dr. Mulroy’s advice to you, if any?

SCHIAVO: Not to treat the infection.

Per my own personal standards of behavior on Free Republic, I will admit I was wrong about Schiavo's conversations with Dr. Mulroy. I did not see that part of the transcript in any of the hundreds of links resulting from searches regarding that deposition.

I have not been able to find a central place where all the documents are available easily. I have been through the Florida Courts page, and have no idea how to find any specific documents (without registering with the site), especially not ones from a dozen years ago.

This, however, doesn't change the fact that Schiavo alone made the initial decision to let Terri's UTI go untreated, as he admitted in that deposition. In the same deposition, he suggests that the Schindlers no longer cared about Terri, and that if legally the hospital could allow Terri to go untreated, he wouldn't necessarily have told her parents.

According to the Wolfson report (that factual report to the Governor that you all seem to run from), the doctor's advice was to not treat the infection.

Don't count me among those who "run from" the Wolfson report! I addressed not only Wolfson's report to Bush (what I was able to read before leaving for Sunday worship this morning), but that same specific paragraph you referenced. I hadn't gotten to references about Mulroy, or else I wouldn't have responded the way I did.

If her parents and she were so strong in their faith as we were told to believe, what does it say about them that they would want to keep their daughter in that state for a few more years at most instead of standing in Heaven?

(snip)

I know where I'm going when I die and I don't want my family sitting around a bed looking at me in a comatose state when they could be out enjoying their lives the Good Lord gave 'em.

If you are a person of faith, you know that there are a myriad of schools of thought as to what "God's Will" is in situations that deal with life and death.

I will, however, point out this fact: in scripture, no one recognized as a righteous lover of God committed suicide nor committed an act of what would be termed nowadays as "euthanasia." Off the top of my head, only two suicides come to mind: King Saul, who was on the outs with God and fell on his sword rather than allow a Philistine to deal the final blow, and Judas Iscariot. On the other hand, Job refused to facilitate his own death despite the urging of his wife, who apparently couldn't stand to see him suffer.

I wouldn't dare suggest to your family members to do with you, so I find it hypocritical that you pass judgment on the Schindlers' statements.

[Peach]

Thanks. It took me a long time to learn how to post pictures but some nice freepers helped. I'm in South Carolina so if you're nearby, we'll have lunch.

[DustyMoment]

Now, that is why I am very angry. You know, if you insult a woman, all women comes to her defense, the same thing with gay, a Jewish person, a fat person, a black person, a Hispanic person, a Chinese person; so why in havens name Christians as whole do not band together and react to aggression against other Christians?

Your response is an unsubstantiated, immature generalization. It's like saying everyone whose last name is Smith knows every other Smith or all the people living in San Diego all know each other.

If you believe in God, you know that God has imbued each of us with free will - not just Christians, but all mankind.

I find it curious that you only hold Christians accountable for what is happening in the Sudan, not the Muslims perpetrating the murders. If we believe that we all have free will, then the Muslims are exercising theirs, just as the Christians being murdered are exercising theirs.

Muslims have a long history of committing murder - for just about any reason and, sometimes, for no reason. They are a cult of murderers so the fact they are committing murders shouldn't be a surprise. The Christians being murdered, to some extent, also have free will and can leave if they choose, rather than stay and face a certain fate at the hands of the murderers.

But, your anger solely at Christians strikes me as a camouflage for something else going on in your life, either with Christianity, itself, or some other factor for which you have chosen to focus on Christianity as your cause celebre.

Each of us does what we can do in life. For a variety of reasons, we cannot do a lot to help the Christians in the Sudan or stop the slaughter taking place there. For starters, our government has very little influence (if any) in the Sudan, so there's not much we can do to force the issue. Secondly, if a bunch of Christians jump on the next jumbo jet bound for the Sudan, determined to stop the murders, they'll just become the next group of Darwin Award winners. And, I would ask, with all of your pent-up anger at Christians for not speaking out or coming to the aid of other Christians, what are you doing to end the slaughter, other than blaming all Christians?

Clearly, this is an issue about which you have a great deal of passion. There's nothing wrong with that; passion is a good thing. But, misdirected anger and passion is destructive. It might be beneficial to re-direct your passion towards the things that you can do to help others if that is what you seek.

I also can't help wondering if you aren't questioning religion, in general, and Christianity in specific? I almost think it is a rite of passage for all Christians to question their faith. I certainly did when I was younger, reaching the level of agnosticism before I found my way back (no matter what I felt at the time, I wasn't so certain I was right that I was willing to deny the existence of God). If you are questioning Christianity, the whole Sudan issue may be a test you have created in your own mind to see how Christians will react; I don't know. Regardless of the outcome of your "test" or the murders of Christians in the Sudan, you will eventually exercise your own free will and make whatever decision you will make about Christianity, God and religion. This is all part and parcel of living as a free human on this earth. God granted us the ability to make choices, knowing that we might stray. This is why Christianity is a religion of faith. It isn't something that science has been able to prove in a lab, and it isn't something that you will find on the shelf at 7-11 or Wal-Mart. It either works for you, or it doesn't. Whichever way you choose, it is your choice. I grappled with those choices for a long time. Whatever you decide about Christianity, or religion, or the Sudan, that is the choice you will make and you will reconcile your life to that choice.

Whatever happens, I wish you well.

[conservlib]

Hi Dusty, You said "Muslims have a long history of committing murder"! I am very surprised at the depth of your intellect. Thanks Einstein! If I wanted to discuss deep subjects with retards, I would have been logging on Bellview Hospital.

[DustyMoment]

Well, I tried to reach out to you and drew back a nub. Now I know why you're so angry - you're just a typical lib who hates himself and eveyone around him.

Have a nice lib life.

[a5478]

"If her parents and she were so strong in their faith as we were told to believe, what does it say about them that they would want to keep their daughter in that state for a few more years at most instead of standing in Heaven?"

As a matter of fact, most people who are very strong in their faith refrain from sending those who suffer on earth on that quick ticket to heaven. Our faith teaches us that life's journey is not easy for anyone. To be faithful is to know God's work in your life and His home is the end of the journey. We don't cut short the journey for earthly reasons.

[billbears]

Give it a rest. I am strong in my faith in Christ and I wouldn't want my wife sitting on her tail for 15 years waiting for a recovery that just wouldn't happen. I know exactly what the Christian faith teaches and I also know there's a time for everything, even a time to let go if necessary.

We don't cut short the journey for earthly reasons.

And we don't extend it for others for self serving reasons either.

[a5478]

Hope your wife remains healthy for years to come.

[billbears]

She does, then she does. If I do, then I do. But when it comes time to make that decision, it's a decision that will be made by our family, our doctors, and prayer. Not by the national government through another useless edict and overstepping of states' rights

[a5478]

May I recommend the example of Michael Schiavo? First, obtain a jury award of 1.4 million dollars. Then pull the plug.

[billbears]

Why? I wouldn't be in it for the money. His motives may have been wrong but the decision was still his according to the state of Florida. Give it a rest. There is nothing in this case that allowed the national government to trump the right of the state to make this decision. Republicans quite clearly showed their big government roots while pandering for votes

I have it clearly in a living will and have made it clear to more than a few that I don't want family members sitting around a body that will never recover. No, my requests are to just cut off or unhook anything that may be keeping me there, shut off the light, get out the door, and head on with their lives.

[a5478]

"His motives may have been wrong but the decision was still his according to the state of Florida"

The decision, according to the state of Florida, is hers. He represented one view of her wishes and her parents represented another view of her wishes.

[billbears]

The decision, according to the state of Florida, is hers.

No, the decision according to the state of Florida is the guardian's, which happened to be Schiavo. Under your logic if someone is laying in a bed with no brain left, they would never be able to disconnect them because the person didn't sit up and tell them to. His view was supported by law where her parents view was supported by what I have no idea other than emotions.

Look don't bother responding because frankly I'm tired of arguing about this crap (and that's what it is). The rule of law stood. You didn't like it, so your side chooses instead to play word games. The rule of law in Florida stood and thank God the national government couldn't find the angle to get involved. And I will personally do everything that I can that statists that believe as you do (that the national government had any issue in this matter) will never get elected into office now or in the future. If that means eventually replacing every politician from the one big party in Washington then so be it.

[a5478]

You are mistaken. The guardian petitioned the court to remove the feeding tube based on his representation of her wishes.

I can think of a hundred other cases where the rule of law has been applied and found lacking in it's application or interpretation. It is not revolutionary in American governement to respond by enacting more suitable laws.

The national government simply attempted to provide Terri Schiavo's parents an appeal based on a rehearing of their case as the orginal case had been so poorly represented. The Schindlers paid their initial legal fees out of pocket while Michael Schiavo paid an experienced attorney $350,000 out of the jury award he had received ostensibly for the treatment and therapy of Terri Schiavo.

[cabbieguy]

I agree 100% with your views. Do you have a sense that this forum has taken a real destructive tone since the Terry Schiavo case caught the spotlight. I have voted conservative since 1964 (Barry Goldwater) and will never waver from my political stance, but if you don't agree with the zealots on the right you are somehow branded a murderer. That poor woman lay 15 years in a vegetative state (confirmed by many doctors). I really think this forum has been taken over by radicals on the right in the same way the dimocrats have been taken over by the kook fringe on the left.