There is room for question on everything else but that.
Terri Schiavo Before dehydration
Posted on 04/16/2005 8:15:30 AM PDT by kingattax
Of interest to you may be my reply to her in this post:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385029/posts?page=8#8
Have a nice day.
How can this be new to you? She had multiple EEGs, including in 2002.
Go here; the documents are well sourced and linked.
Her four guardian ad litem reports, (and I gather you haven't read one of them) all mention the EEGs.
http://freerepublic.com/~trinitytx/
Terri suffered cardiac arrest; the EMT's restarted her heart several time on the way to the ER. But she shows in the videos made during the therapy period that she was not only swallowing on her won (And continued to because she did not asperate on the quarts of saliva she produced each day without being suctioned by nurses), she is clearly trying to move her head to follow the directions her then husband was giving her bedie the lake while she was in a wheelchair! Your desire to dehumanize Terri is astonishing only because I thought more of you, but not so outlandish when added to the horde of 'execute the useless' now infesting any Terri thread.
Terri had cardiac arrest in 1990. That IS well sourced and documented.
What isn't well documented is that she had a heart attack because no one (except her parents) tries to allege she did.
Go read about PVS to understand why it appears she is responsive.
For that matter, read Wolfson's report (one of her 4 GALs).
Aw, she's got an adorable smile. Our Pastor did a sermon once entitled "But God" about how we are told things in life that we can't do...won't ever be able to do ... 'BUT GOD"
Already done on both accounts. Thanks for the advice.
Oh, please don't go quoting Dr. H to back up your position.
In 2002 when the Schindlers were permitted to bring two of their own doctors to court, any doctors they chose, it's worth noting the two they brought are alternative medicine doctors.
One didn't even know the difference between a coma and PVS.
Dr. H claims to have a Nobel nomination but can't produce it in court. He claims to have helped people like Terri but can't produce one single document or record of such for the court.
He advertises in the National Inquirer, insurance companies won't work with him and so his patients must pay cash.
I do not wish to be dehydrated/starved to death. I'm funny that way.
=======
Oh WOW! That's the sexiest comment I've heard all week long.
See wutchew dun tomb E? Ewe got me a shiverin' n' a shakin' !!!
Shay Mon Ewe !!! ;-))
We are talking at cross purposes here. Your answer is not responsive to my question.
She had a feeding tube after she was admitted to the hospital in 1990. She had a feeding tube in 2005. There is a possibility that these were not "the same" installation (giving, of course, that the feeding tube is replaced from time to time). What I hadn't seen evidence of (until two of your assertions are strung together) was that Terri was NEVER fed by mouth in the duration from 1990 to 2005 (not counting a swallowing test as being fed by mouth, etc.).
I don't remember the first year of the swallow test but believe it was 1990 or 1991.
So, taking that, and three swallowing tests about a year apart, her last swallow test was in 1994 or so. See, that wasn't so hard! She was continuously equipped with a feeding tube from 1990 until 2005, per your evidence (again, not counting the court ordered removals, replacements, etc.).
Thanks for the testimony. Allow me to share this one from our family: (I wrote this in response to some FReeper who was truly barbaric on this topic)
"I believe passionately in the sanctity of innocent life. If I err, I err on the side of life. I am ardently pro-life (even though I wasn't in my early college years), and anti-euthanasia.
My younger brother's only child, my niece, from birth was very much like Terri Schiavo. Her health problems resulted from genetic issues. She never spoke a word. She never walked. She never crawled. She never fed herself. She could not hug with her arms. She died when she was 13.
Her life, and the look in her eyes when she went in her special wheelchair outside for walks, spoke volumes, and shouted out to the world that she could make a difference.
And you know what? She did more to heal people around her (in particular, my mother and father) than a thousand sermons, a thousand pontificating politicians, or a thousand professors of ethics ever could.
Was she a vegetable? If she was, the world needs more such vegetables, and less knuckle-draggers.
The image of my niece, and her ability (although miniscule) to be happy, will not allow me to accept some euthanasia-happy society that arbitrarily decides who lives a 'worthy' life or not. And that includes the "Greer Reaper"."
Thanks again for your story.
When the day comes that I have no brain activity, I will consider myself dead.
I am not trying to dehumanize Terri. I am trying to have freepers stop referring to people who claim on the internet they are doctors and believe those people but not believe doctors who were subject to cross examination under oath.
I didn't see EEG on that file...Also, I remember there being a mistake the judge made in determining that her friend made a mistake and that Terri made her statements about Karen Quinlan when they were 11 or 12. He was clearly off on that one.
There is room for question on everything else but that.
And more poeple are going to hell than a lot of people think!
Freepers used to do research. Dozens of freepers have posted links to the actual court testimony.
Here is more:
1. In 1993, Terri's doctors recommended to Michael that he remove the tube. This is done all the time in this nation.
He didn't want to do that because he thought it was cruel. He then saw his parents go through it so by 1998(?), he said ok.
But still he didn't want to be the final arbiter of this and went to the court and asked THEM to make the determination. The Courts noted in their decision he didn't have to do this and effectively weakened his own position by doing so. (I have the exact words in the link to the court decision).
2. During the first 3 years of Terri's PVS status, no one argues that she wasn't given the most rigorous therapy. Everything that could be done, was done. He even had electrodes implanted in her brain in an effort to stimulate her brain activity. In the early 90's, the electrodes used make her ineligible to have an MRI. They use different kinds now and there has been some suggestion that doctors recommended those electrodes be removed, although no freper has ever been able to provide me with a link to that.
#3. In the early 90's, MS sued the hospital for malpractice. Terri presented at the hospital with cardiac arrest as the result of being bulimic. The hospital didn't pick up on that and didn't treat her appropriately which in part resulted in her PVS. MS was given $300,000 for loss of consortium; the rest went to Terri's care and is controlled by the court (I think). Mr. Schindler thought he was entitled to some of that $$ and they argued over the $$.
#4. Previous to that, MS and the Schindlers had gotten along fabulously. Schindlers considered him like a son and said they couldn't get through it without him. Then came the $$ problem.
#5. The Schindlers testified under oath the yknew their daughter was PVS. They now act like she isn't, but they've already admitted it.
#6. The Schindlers tried in the early 90's to care for their daughter and returned her to rehab shortly after because they were overwhelmed (their word). There is no reason to believe that 13 years older they are better capable of caring for Terri this time.
#7. The Schindlers testified under oath that they would be willing to see Terri undergo multiple amputations should she get diabetes from loss of circulation. They also said that no matter what she wants, they want to keep her alive.
#8. No honorable man who knows his wife is PVS is going to stand by and watch her get carved up. In my opinion.
#9. Michael became a respiratory therapist in order to better learn to care for Terri. Under oath, the nurses who cared for Terri said his care of her was extraordinary. She never even had a bed sore, nearly unheard of, and that he was very demanding of nursing staff.
#10. Now we have nurses and others coming out of the woodwork saying that they know Terri isn't PVS because (insert blabbering). It's amazing that they never told thsi to the Schindlers! They have written affadavits (if these people are even nurses...most of this is over the internet).
So some freepers think we should believe unsourced material over the internet but not court documents and witnesses that were subject to cross examination under oath.
Anyway, when I first started writing about this last week, I hadn't really made up my mind about this matter. The more I examined it and other freepers started researching it, the more I made up my mind.
And the Wolfson Report, which gives the most thorough history:
http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/wolfson%27s%20report.pdf
Then, read:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder11-02.txt
Greer's ruling in 2002 after the 5 doctor trial to see if there were any hope for her to improve.
http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/2D02-5394.pdf
The Second district court of appeals' (interesting) ruling in support of his decision.
This excellent, official time line of events, including links to other court decisions:
http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/timeline.htm
Extra Links
Cruzan decision
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=497&invol=261
More on Cruzan:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/cruzan.html
Terri's medical discharge summary:
http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/Humana%20Discharge%20Summary%20050990.pdf
Greer's denial of bone scan - the doctors who actually saw Terri, and the radiologist who did follow-up x-rays saw nothing suspicious.
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder11-02-scan.pdf
Greer's finding that Carla Iyer and others were not credible:
http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/Order%20Denying%20Pet%20Immed%20Ther%20091703.pdf
Description of the complete 4 hours of video:
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/10/Tampabay/Schiavo_tapes__snippe.shtml
Description of the testimony at the 2000 trial to determine Terri's wishes.
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/08/Tampabay/Schiavo_s_wishes_reca.shtml
NATIONAL ENQUIRER 1998 featuring Dr. William Hammesfahr (he has ads there)
http://www.floridaneurologicalinstitute.com/national_enquirer_1998.htm
How can a person swallow their saliva if they can't swallow?
Absolutley right!
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