FReeper Canteen ~ Conclusion of The Mongols ~ January 11, 2005

www.coldsiberia.org ^ | January 11, 2005 | LaDivaLoca

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

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[AZamericonnie]

Thank you Diva for tonight's thread.

[MoJo2001]

LaDivaLoca isn't leaving the Canteen for good. She is planning a new journey in her life and career. When she gets settled, she'll be back on Tuesdays. You can count on it!

So? Don't anyone fret about LaDivaLoca leaving forever. She's not. Keep pinging her so she can keep updated with things.

[BykrBayb]

I'm doing great. Except for one minor little problem. An evil person on another thread. I'll let him/her/it stew for awhile, until I'm in the mood to dish out my punishment.

[StarCMC]

Thanks for today's thread Diva!

[SevenofNine]

Well well guess didn't show up for work tonight on CBS evening news our fav b***h Dan Rather tonight gee wonder whyyyy

Well Drudge developing a story NY Times score interview with Les Moovers CBS president he claim that CBS news got nail on this memogate he think that CBS news organization be dead in 5 years

Also Hareetz wire reporting that IDF stop plot by Hezollah miltant whack new PLO PM elect Abba earlier today

WHOA

[Smartass]

THANKS FOR THE PING

God Bless Our Great Military

[PzLdr]

Excellent post-a few comments:

The campaign against the Tartars was instigated by the Chin, who approached Temuchin and Toghrul for help (The Chin were Jurchids from Manchuria who had conquered northern Chain the previous century. After annihilating the Tartars (who had killed his father), Temuchin distributed the survivors among all the Mongol clans. He used the same technique in assigning troops to his various tumans. This led to the sense of 'Mongolhood"

After turning on, and defeating Toghrul, and then Toghrul's son and Jamuka, Temuchin was proclaimed Chinggis Qa Quan at the quiriltai of 1206. He didn't give himself the title.

The campaign against Khwaresm was brilliant. Outnumbered over two to one, Temuchin attacked in three separate columns (Jochi, Chagatai and Uggedai, and Temuchin and Sabotai). Temuchin's column marched through "impenetrable" desert (think Ardennes squared) and appeared in the rear of the Khwaresm May and attacked from the West. By the time the campaign was over, the Mongols ruled present day Iran, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, and the Khwaresm Shah was fleeing west with two tumans under Sabotai and Jebe Noyon in pursuit (he died on an island in the Aral Sea)

On campaign, Mongol troops took a string of 5-10 horses each. That was why they could travel over 90 miles a day, and set land speed records unequaled until 1940, and why on the approach march to Russia (1236), the Mongols crossed 15 meridians of longitude without any major halts.

Chinnghis Quan's greatest accomplishment, albeit indirect, may have been the Age of Exploration. His descendants controlled the Silk Road for several hundred years. By making trade safe, and profitable, they built up the European desire for Asian products (particularly spices), that the Europeans were unwilling to forgo when Mongol dynastic wars, the Ming rebellion, etc closed the Road, and which led them to seek other routes to the East. His second greatest nonmilitary accomplishment may have bee the concept of religious freedom incorporated in, and guaranteed by the Jasagh, his legal code. That put the "barbarian" far ahead of his "civilized" counterparts.

[PzLdr]

Tamerlane wasn't a Mongol-he was a Turk. Initially he worked through a nominal Quan who was a Chinggisid, acting as his vizier. Later in his career, he dropped the pretense. Based in Samarkand (where he's buried), Tamerlane, a Moslem made war on the Golden Horde (Mongol and Moslem), the Ottoman Turks (ditto), and anybody else he could find. He died marching on China. He is also known as Timur i Link (approximation), or Timur the Lame (bad leg)

[Lady Jag]

What's going on? La Diva Loca leaving? That's not happening.

[StarCMC]

See #23

[Laurita]

Dog-gone-nit! That one won't load either. Someone tell me what it looks like, please. Thanks to the men in the Military and the Canteen

[Laurita]

Great pics! Thanks, Radix!

[Laurita]

Oooh, wouldn't want to be that person. Happens to me all the time, too. I wonder sometimes if what I think I'm typing is not what I'm actually typing?

[HiJinx]

Let's see if you're having problems with where the pic is coming from. Looks like the server is in...shudder...France! I'll save it, post it to my server, and let's see what happens, ok?

See the pony?

[StarCMC]

Closeup of a tan horse with a white blaze and mane in a field with yellow flowers...

[Laurita]

Oh how pretty! Yes, I can't get to any sites in Europe. My server always times out. I haven't been able to reach that part of the world since I got to Korea. Thank you!

[Laurita]

Thank You!

[StarCMC]

LOL!! The picture was prettier than my description!

[PzLdr]

There's a lot wrong with the map, just dealing with the Chinggisids:

(1) The dates on the Golden Horde are wrong. Central Russia fell in the winter of 1237-1238. Kiev fell to Batu in 1240. The date is twenty years off.

(2)The dynasty in Persia (founded by Hulegu in 1258 was the IL-KHANATE, or lesser Khanate (he was the brother of two Qua Quans-Mongke and Kublai)

(3) The map omits the White Horde, which was situated where the eastern portion of the Golden Horde appears. Initially ruled by Batu's brother, Buri, it became allied, under Tokhtamesh with Tamerlane in a war with the Golden Horde. After Tokhtamesh won, and united those two hordes, he fought a series of wars with Tamerlane, resulting in the destruction of the Golden Horde, and its splintering into the Crimean tartars, who became vassals of the Ottomans, and the Khanates of Kazan and Sibir. It also led to the rise of Muscovy to a dominant position in Russia.

(4)The map omits the Khanate of Quaidu, grandson of Uggedai, and perpetual thorn in the side of Kublai. It would appear north of, and overlapping with (depending on who was winning) with the Chaggatid Khanate.

(5) The dates for the Yuan dynasty are wrong. Mongke died in China around 1259-1260. The struggle over the succession between Kublai and his younger brother Arik Boka lasted several years. The conquest of the Sung was not completed until around 1279.

The Manchus were not Mongols. They were a Tungus people,like the Jurchids who had founded the Chin dynasty in Northern China.